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Peter Tork Died: The Make-Believe Band that Actually Came to Life

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Look at this entry on Hal Blaine on Wikipedia. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Blaine

Go down to the list of 40 #1 songs he played on.  There are three Beach Boy songs and 1 Byrd's song on the list.  The Byrds only had one number 1 single.  

People like Blaine, Carol Kaye, Glenn Campbell, Bill Pitman, and Leon Russell were the real people playing on these songs.  Instead of being ignorant of these people you should be praising their skill and how they made the music you loved. 

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2 hours ago, atomic said:

The drums are awful.  Oh well the fans couldn't probably hear anything over the screaming anyway.

I never said they were that good. Just that they all did have some musical talent/background. They could and did play as a band.

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36 minutes ago, scOtt said:

I never said they were that good. Just that they all did have some musical talent/background. They could and did play as a band.

If I were to have seen them live I would prefer a professional hired drummer were playing and they concentrated on singing. 

Not the worst performance I have ever heard.  I could recognize the songs. I saw the Replacements in 1984 and couldn't recognize the songs they were that bad.

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6 hours ago, atomic said:

 

Look at this entry on Hal Blaine on Wikipedia. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Blaine

Go down to the list of 40 #1 songs he played on.  There are three Beach Boy songs, and 1 Byrd's song on the list.  The Byrds only had one number 1 single.  

People like Blaine, Carol Kaye, Glenn Campbell, Bill Pitman, and Leon Russell were the real people playing on these songs.  Instead of being ignorant of these people you should be praising their skill and how they made the music you loved. 

 

o

 

Yes.

He played on 3 Beach Boys songs ........ out of more than 500 songs that were recorded by the Beach Boys.

 

For the 3rd time, here are your lying words, which you have said multiple times.

 

o

15 hours ago, atomic said:

 

The Beach Boys sang on their records, but didn't play on them. 

 

o

 

That's a flat-out lie, atomic ........ it's not an exaggeration, it's a lie.

It's as big of a lie as saying that the Beatles didn't play their own instruments because Eric Clapton played lead guitar on While My Guitar Gently Weeps, and that Billy Preston played keyboards on the Let It Be album.

 

The Partridge Family did not play their own instruments.

The Monkees did not play their own instruments on their first 2 albums.

The Beach Boys, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones all DID play their own instruments, regardless of the fact that they occasionally had other musicians sit in on some songs. I have told you this numerous times, as did Going Underground, Steve A, and Scott. 

 

If you want to continue lying, go right ahead. Amuse yourself.

 

o

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16 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Yes.

He played on 3 Beach Boys songs ........ out of more than 500 songs that were recorded by the Beach Boys.

 

For the 3rd time, here are your lying words, which you have said multiple times.

 

o

o

 

That's a flat-out lie, atomic ........ it's not an exaggeration, it's a lie.

It's as big of a lie as saying that the Beatles didn't play their own instruments because Eric Clapton played lead guitar on While My Guitar Gently Weeps, and that Billy Preston played keyboards on the Let It Be album.

 

The Partridge Family did not play their own instruments.

The Monkees did not play their own instruments on their first 2 albums.

The Beach Boys, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones all DID play their own instruments, regardless of the fact that they occasionally had other musicians sit in on some songs. I have told you this numerous times, as did Going Underground, Steve A, and Scott. 

 

If you want to continue lying, go right ahead. Amuse yourself.

 

o

No the Beatles had guest musicians. Eric Clapton played on one song. Hal Blaine played on most Beach Boy songs.  I am not sure why you are upset about this.  The Beach Boys got better musicians in the band in the 70's and then they played on their own albums.  I mean look up the albums by the Beach Boys on wikipedia and see a ton of session musicians from the Wrecking Crew on every album.

Watch the Wrecking Crew movie on Hulu. I am not sure why you want to be ignorant about it.  The Stones did not play all their own guitar parts in the 60's. It has long been rumoured that Jimmy  Page played on "Satisfaction".  But you have to ask yourself why?  That is an incredibly easy guitar part to play.  

 When Mick Taylor joined the band he played all the parts as he was an exceptional guitarist.  After he left Ron Wood joined the band. 

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I’ve gone through my copies of the liner notes that accompanied the two-fer CD re-releases of The Beach Boys catalogue in the early 90s. David Leaf compiled these using session notes, tape boxes, remaster engineer Mark Linnet interviews and union sheets to verify The Beach Boys played mostly live in the studio as a self-contained band from their debut through Shut Down Vol. 2, ie their first five LPs. There were an occasional piano or guitar as mentioned in OFFNY’s first reply, but it was for the most part The Beach Boys doing their own sessions for those records. I do see two drum tracks by Hal Blaine on Shut Down Vol. 2 and various other session players sprinkled in on assorted tracks because by that time Brian Wilson was starting to try to achieve and surpass the Phil Spector “Wall of Sound”. You’ll see tympani, a more accomplished pianist (Leon Russell) and various bells and percussion supplementing the basic five Beach Boys basic rhythm tracks.  And around late ‘64, Brian decided to come off the road and start tracks without the band. So from ‘62, ‘63 and most of ‘64, it was the touring Beach Boys (the core band we all know as the early Beach Boys) on their own records with just assorted session guys spicing up the original basic tracks. On the first 3, it’s almost all them with hardly any supporting musicians at all. And just a few added pianos, percussion and Dennis stepping aside on drums for at most, 3 tracks on Surfer Girl and Shut Down Vol. 2. From there on out, Brian went full blast with his attempt to update and surpass Spector and the session guys emerged as his the core studio instruments through Summer Day’s / Summer Nights through Pet Sounds (and if counting the SMiLE sessions which went unreleased for over 40 years). By Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and the subsequent late 60s and early 70s, The Beach Boys were back to being the core band in the studio. Brian had stepped aside and Carl was the defacto live and studio band leader. And surprisingly, he learned well from Brian and those are some gorgeous records. 

As for the Byrds, session players were only used for tracks 1 and 8 on their debut LP Mr. Tambourine Man. The rest were Clark, Clarke, McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby themselves. They continued to have *guest* session men on supporting instruments here and there, but the only Byrd who was subbed out from the 2nd LP onward was drummer Michael Clarke. Jim Gordon was a frequent session replacement for him when he could not get the sound the producer and McGuinn were seeking. By ‘67, he was gone and the drum chair was a revolving door until the Clarence White era of the band emerged in Hillman and Crosby’s departure. 
 

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1 hour ago, NashLumber said:

 

I’ve gone through my copies of the liner notes that accompanied the two-fer CD re-releases of The Beach Boys catalogue in the early 90s. David Leaf compiled these using session notes, tape boxes, remaster engineer Mark Linnet interviews and union sheets to verify The Beach Boys played mostly live in the studio as a self-contained band from their debut through Shut Down Vol. 2, ie their first five LPs. There were an occasional piano or guitar as mentioned in OFFNY’s first reply, but it was for the most part The Beach Boys doing their own sessions for those records. I do see two drum tracks by Hal Blaine on Shut Down Vol. 2 and various other session players sprinkled in on assorted tracks because by that time Brian Wilson was starting to try to achieve and surpass the Phil Spector “Wall of Sound”. You’ll see tympani, a more accomplished pianist (Leon Russell) and various bells and percussion supplementing the basic five Beach Boys basic rhythm tracks.  And around late ‘64, Brian decided to come off the road and start tracks without the band. So from ‘62, ‘63 and most of ‘64, it was the touring Beach Boys (the core band we all know as the early Beach Boys) on their own records with just assorted session guys spicing up the original basic tracks. On the first 3, it’s almost all them with hardly any supporting musicians at all. And just a few added pianos, percussion and Dennis stepping aside on drums for at most, 3 tracks on Surfer Girl and Shut Down Vol. 2. From there on out, Brian went full blast with his attempt to update and surpass Spector and the session guys emerged as his the core studio instruments through Summer Day’s / Summer Nights through Pet Sounds (and if counting the SMiLE sessions which went unreleased for over 40 years). By Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and the subsequent late 60s and early 70s, The Beach Boys were back to being the core band in the studio. Brian had stepped aside and Carl was the defacto live and studio band leader. And surprisingly, he learned well from Brian and those are some gorgeous records. 

As for the Byrds, session players were only used for tracks 1 and 8 on their debut LP Mr. Tambourine Man. The rest were Clark, Clarke, McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby themselves. They continued to have *guest* session men on supporting instruments here and there, but the only Byrd who was subbed out from the 2nd LP only was drummer Michael Clarke. Jim Gordon was a frequent session replacement for him when he could not get the sound the producer and McGuinn were seeking. By ‘67, he was gone and the drum chair was a revolving door until the Clarence White era of the band emerged in Hillman and Crosby’s departure. 
 

o

 

Thank you, very much ........ particularly in your pointing out the facts that the Beach Boys played almost all of their own instruments in their early albums, as I had stated earlier in the thread. 

Kudos to your detailed documentation in regard to the Byrds, also.

 

o

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On 6/6/2019 at 4:45 PM, atomic said:

No the Beatles had guest musicians. Eric Clapton played on one song. Hal Blaine played on most Beach Boy songs.  I am not sure why you are upset about this.  The Beach Boys got better musicians in the band in the 70's and then they played on their own albums.  I mean look up the albums by the Beach Boys on wikipedia and see a ton of session musicians from the Wrecking Crew on every album.

Watch the Wrecking Crew movie on Hulu. I am not sure why you want to be ignorant about it.  The Stones did not play all their own guitar parts in the 60's. It has long been rumoured that Jimmy  Page played on "Satisfaction".  But you have to ask yourself why?  That is an incredibly easy guitar part to play.  

 When Mick Taylor joined the band he played all the parts as he was an exceptional guitarist.  After he left Ron Wood joined the band. 


For certain, on their arguably greatest work, "Pet Sounds," it was all studio musicians.  The band was on the road in Japan while Brian Wilson directed the music back in California.   When the rest of the band returned, they added the vocals.   The truth of the matter is while there were studio musicians, the genius conductor and composer of it all was Brian Wilson, who knew exactly how the songs should be performed.  This was a completely different situation than that of the Monkees, who were spoon-fed their first albums.

According to Al Jardine

Quote

I can’t remember the first time we used him on Beach Boys records, but Brian might have starting using him after the “Surf City” session. [Ed. Note: Wilson co-wrote the chart-topping 1963 hit for Jan & Dean.] Hal and Earl Palmer played double drums on that, and that impressed Brian a lot.

We worked feverishly on the first few albums, but at one point the Wrecking Crew came in, because we were on the road so much.  We would come home and do the vocals, but the Crew would be tracking. Brian wasn’t in the touring band, so he got to play with those guys. I remember coming into the studio one day and hearing one of the songs on [1965’s] Summer Days (and Summer Nights). I remember thinking, “Wow, what a great drum track — amazing!”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/hal-blaine-beach-boys-al-jardine-807270/

As for Satisfaction, that riff came to Keith Richards in a dream.   Jimmy Page was a few years later supposedly plagiarizing the music to "Stairway," which is being appealed in court to this day.

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1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:


For certain, on their arguably greatest work, "Pet Sounds," it was all studio musicians.  The band was on the road in Japan while Brian Wilson directed the music back in California.   When the rest of the band returned, they added the vocals.   The truth of the matter is while there were studio musicians, the genius conductor and composer of it all was Brian Wilson, who knew exactly how the songs should be performed.  This was a completely different situation than that of the Monkees, who were spoon-fed their first albums.

According to Al Jardine

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/hal-blaine-beach-boys-al-jardine-807270/

As for Satisfaction, that riff came to Keith Richards in a dream.   Jimmy Page was a few years later supposedly plagiarizing the music to "Stairway," which is being appealed in court to this day.

Almost all of Led Zeppelin songs were plagiarized. A lot of times they didn't even bother to change the lyrics.   They lost a lot of lawsuits on previous songs and some were settled out of court.  They also put their names on public domain songs.  

Anyway I don't care if a band uses session musicians or not if the song is good at the end of the day that is all that matters. 

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18 hours ago, NashLumber said:

 

I’ve gone through my copies of the liner notes that accompanied the two-fer CD re-releases of The Beach Boys catalogue in the early 90s. David Leaf compiled these using session notes, tape boxes, remaster engineer Mark Linnet interviews and union sheets to verify The Beach Boys played mostly live in the studio as a self-contained band from their debut through Shut Down Vol. 2, ie their first five LPs. There were an occasional piano or guitar as mentioned in OFFNY’s first reply, but it was for the most part The Beach Boys doing their own sessions for those records. I do see two drum tracks by Hal Blaine on Shut Down Vol. 2 and various other session players sprinkled in on assorted tracks because by that time Brian Wilson was starting to try to achieve and surpass the Phil Spector “Wall of Sound”. You’ll see tympani, a more accomplished pianist (Leon Russell) and various bells and percussion supplementing the basic five Beach Boys basic rhythm tracks.  And around late ‘64, Brian decided to come off the road and start tracks without the band. So from ‘62, ‘63 and most of ‘64, it was the touring Beach Boys (the core band we all know as the early Beach Boys) on their own records with just assorted session guys spicing up the original basic tracks. On the first 3, it’s almost all them with hardly any supporting musicians at all. And just a few added pianos, percussion and Dennis stepping aside on drums for at most, 3 tracks on Surfer Girl and Shut Down Vol. 2. From there on out, Brian went full blast with his attempt to update and surpass Spector and the session guys emerged as his the core studio instruments through Summer Day’s / Summer Nights through Pet Sounds (and if counting the SMiLE sessions which went unreleased for over 40 years). By Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and the subsequent late 60s and early 70s, The Beach Boys were back to being the core band in the studio. Brian had stepped aside and Carl was the defacto live and studio band leader. And surprisingly, he learned well from Brian and those are some gorgeous records. 

As for the Byrds, session players were only used for tracks 1 and 8 on their debut LP Mr. Tambourine Man. The rest were Clark, Clarke, McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby themselves. They continued to have *guest* session men on supporting instruments here and there, but the only Byrd who was subbed out from the 2nd LP onward was drummer Michael Clarke. Jim Gordon was a frequent session replacement for him when he could not get the sound the producer and McGuinn were seeking. By ‘67, he was gone and the drum chair was a revolving door until the Clarence White era of the band emerged in Hillman and Crosby’s departure. 
 

o

 

This is from the Beach Boys' discography, on their first 4 albums.

As you (and I) both pointed out, it was almost all of the Beach Boys themselves playing the instruments. 

 

1) ) Surfin Safari (1962)

 

The Beach Boys:

Mike Love – lead, harmony and backing vocals

Al Jardine – backing vocals and double bass on "Surfin'"

David Marks – lead, harmony and backing vocals; rhythm guitar

Brian Wilson – lead, harmony and backing vocals; bass guitar; organ; snare drum on "Surfin'"

Carl Wilson – lead, harmony and backing vocals; lead guitar; acoustic guitar on "Surfin'", drums on "Moon Dawg"[15][page needed]

Dennis Wilson – lead, harmony and backing vocals; drums except "Surfin'" and "Moon Dawg"

 

Additional musicians and production staff:

Nick Venet – harmony and backing vocals; electric guitar

 

2) ) Surfin USA (1963)

 

The Beach Boys:

Brian Wilson – vocals, bass guitar, keyboards

Mike Love – vocals, saxophone

David Marks – harmony and backing vocals, rhythm guitar

Carl Wilson – harmony and backing vocals, lead guitar

Dennis Wilson – harmony and backing vocals; drums except "Surfin' USA"

 

Additional musicians and production staff:

Frank DeVito — drums on "Surfin' USA"

 

3) ) Surfer Girl (1963)

 

The Beach Boys:

Mike Love – lead, backing and harmony vocals; hand claps; saxophone on "The Rocking Surfer"

Al Jardine – backing and harmony vocals; bass guitar; hand claps

David Marks – rhythm guitar; hand claps

Brian Wilson – lead, backing and harmony vocals; bass guitar; piano, organ; hand claps

Carl Wilson – backing and harmony vocals; lead guitar; hand claps

Dennis Wilson – lead, backing and harmony vocals; drums, hand claps

 

Additional musicians and production staff:

Hal Blaine – drums on "The Surfer Moon" and "Our Car Club," timbales on "Hawaii," percussion

Steve Douglas – tenor saxophone

Maureen Love – harp

 

4) ) Little Deuce Coupe (1963)

 

The Beach Boys:

Al Jardine – harmony and backing vocals; bass guitar

Mike Love – lead, harmony and backing vocals; saxophone

David Marks – harmony and backing vocals; rhythm guitar

Brian Wilson – lead, harmony and backing vocals; piano, bass guitar

Carl Wilson – harmony and backing vocals; lead guitar

Dennis Wilson – harmony and backing vocals; drums

 

Additional musicians

Hal Blaine - drums on "Our Car Club"

Steve Douglas, Jay Migliori - possible horns

 

o

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 Calling the Beach Boys a "fake band" is what set this off.  "Fake bands" didn't write and produce their own music,  the Beach Boys did.  No, the Wrecking Crew were not on "every album" by the Beach Boys.  Yes, Hal Blaine played on a few early tracks and the Wrecking Crew were the musicians behind "Pet Sounds."  
 

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On 6/5/2019 at 10:20 PM, OFFNY said:

 

 

 

 

o

 

OK, you  want to play incorrigible/obstinate ??? Fine.

 

Saying that the Beach Boys were a fake band is even more absurd than saying so about the Monkees. I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the Beach Boys (like the Beatles) wrote almost all of their own material starting with their first album in 1962 (Surfin Safari.) They would occasionally have a guest musician (such as Frank DeVito, Nick Venet, and Hal Blaine) play an instrument on a song or 2 on their albums. Other than that, it was the Beach Boys themselves singing, writing, and recording the instruments. The Rolling Stones would also do the same, as Nicky Hopkins, Bobby Keys, and Ry Cooder would often sit in on a song or 2 on their albums playing the piano, the sax, and the slide guitar. 

 

The Byrds were not as throughly independent as were the Beach Boys (and the Rolling Stones) because they had more help in the studio than did the Beach Boys (or the Rolling Stones.) But they still played more than half of the instruments on their albums, and wrote (or co-wrote) more than half of the material on those albums themselves, hence were far from a fake band, like the Archies and the Partridge Family. 

 

Regarding the Monkees, I already explained their progression/ascent into autonomy and realness, in detail.

 

Lumping in the Mamas and the Papas with bands such as the Beach Boys and the Byrds in terms of realness/fakeness/autonomy of their songwriting and instrument playing is absurd, or perhaps just another disingenuous method of yours to try make an argument that is blatantly false. Your behavior here on the Hangout board is (not surprisingly) very much like your behavior on the Orioles Hangout section.

 

o

This is a good take. 

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5 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

 Calling the Beach Boys a "fake band" is what set this off.  "Fake bands" didn't write and produce their own music,  the Beach Boys did.  No, the Wrecking Crew were not on "every album" by the Beach Boys.  Yes, Hal Blaine played on a few early tracks and the Wrecking Crew were the musicians behind "Pet Sounds."  
 

I never called anyone a fake band.  And I don't know what writing your own music makes you anymore of a real band than one that records other peoples music.  It is better for their pocket book if they write their own music.   

But Pet Sounds is in the same category as the first two Monkees albums.  Brian Wilson didn't tour with the band. Hadn't played with them in years.  And the rest of the band only sang. 

Anyway Pet Sounds is not a favorite of mind.  Prefer the first two Monkee's albums to it. Or earlier Beach Boys music. 

 

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3 hours ago, weams said:

This is a good take. 

I thought it was the ramblings of an insane person.  

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9 minutes ago, atomic said:

I thought it was the ramblings of an insane person.  

Well the last part that I did not quote was a bit harsh. 

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