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2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Yes. There is. There is a very specific reason why the Orioles should have the worst team.  But of course you know this. 

I agree with this, but I think the eternal optimist in me was hoping that we could lose while watching some of our prospects develop. I'm still having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that our lineup will be all retreads and castaways this season. I also don't believe that we're putting our best team on the field and I'm wrestling a bit with the ethics of that strategy.  

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On 3/24/2019 at 11:20 AM, atomic said:

The Orioles cant even sell out opening day against the Yankees.  I am guessing most fans aren't on board with the triple A team plan.

It's a home opener. Not even opening day! They couldn't even open at home. Those losers. 

Hundreds left out of the 45 thousand they tried to sell! No room for scalpers to make buck. 

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On 3/24/2019 at 4:33 PM, atomic said:

I am guessing you have never bought opening day tickets.  I have in many seasons and most of the time the only thing that gets released to general fans is standing room only seats.  And those get snat hed up instantly. Last year they had some regular seats but they went quickly.  This year tons of tickets still available and against the Yankees no less.  I am guessing you will be able to find opening day tickets on stubhub for next to nothing the day before the game.

This isn't true. I've snatched up Opening Day seats from the team most years even through the recent winning stretch.

They always have seats come available that they were holding back for potential new season ticket sales. Always. This year they have more than other years of course (I grabbed section 10, 12 rows off the field from the O's website), but it has been a very very long time since there were no seats made available to the general public for opening day.

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1 hour ago, Ohfan67 said:

Yes. There is. There is a very specific reason why the Orioles should have the worst team.  But of course you know this. 

I personally don’t think Elias is specifically trying to have the worst team.    But that outcome is a fairly likely byproduct of what he is trying to do:

- Keep payroll as low as possible while the team is not likely to contend.    Spend money on infrastructure and long-term investments, and save money to spend when the team is likely to contend.

- Develop players in the minors according to the new regime’s development principles and preferences, rather than rushing up players who performed decently last year but may have attributes the new regime wants to address.

- Preserve as much service time as possible for the years when the team will be ready to contend.    

When you do those things in a disciplined way, the team is likely to be very bad for a year or two, possibly more.    If that byproduct leads to top draft picks, that’s a big plus, but I don’t think they’re literally trying to be so bad that they get the no. 1 pick.   

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11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I personally don’t think Elias is specifically trying to have the worst team.    But that outcome is a fairly likely byproduct of what he is trying to do:

- Keep payroll as low as possible while the team is not likely to contend.    Spend money on infrastructure and long-term investments, and save money to spend when the team is likely to contend.

- Develop players in the minors according to the new regime’s development principles and preferences, rather than rushing up players who performed decently last year but may have attributes the new regime wants to address.

- Preserve as much service time as possible for the years when the team will be ready to contend.    

When you do those things in a disciplined way, the team is likely to be very bad for a year or two, possibly more.    If that byproduct leads to top draft picks, that’s a big plus, but I don’t think they’re literally trying to be so bad that they get the no. 1 pick.   

Atomic said there is "no reason" to be the worst team in baseball, but there clearly is one specific reason. That said, of course I agree with all of your points. 

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1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this, but I think the eternal optimist in me was hoping that we could lose while watching some of our prospects develop. I'm still having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that our lineup will be all retreads and castaways this season. I also don't believe that we're putting our best team on the field and I'm wrestling a bit with the ethics of that strategy.  

I too was hoping that a few would head north, especially the lower probability guys. We will have Mullins and the Rule 5 picks, so there will be some young players to root for. I'm hoping some prospects force their way up, but Elias will definitely be very patient. 

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24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I personally don’t think Elias is specifically trying to have the worst team.    But that outcome is a fairly likely byproduct of what he is trying to do:

- Keep payroll as low as possible while the team is not likely to contend.    Spend money on infrastructure and long-term investments, and save money to spend when the team is likely to contend.

- Develop players in the minors according to the new regime’s development principles and preferences, rather than rushing up players who performed decently last year but may have attributes the new regime wants to address.

- Preserve as much service time as possible for the years when the team will be ready to contend.    

When you do those things in a disciplined way, the team is likely to be very bad for a year or two, possibly more.    If that byproduct leads to top draft picks, that’s a big plus, but I don’t think they’re literally trying to be so bad that they get the no. 1 pick.   

They will never say it out loud, but do you think some guys are being kept down longer than they might normally be because they believe the prior regimes did not develop players the "right" way, and they want these guys to spend some extra time in the minors to make up for those shortcomings in their background?

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They tanked AJ to make Cedric a new face.     They have to at least let it all occur organically. Plus they want Hays to be the center fielder until he is traded or leaves for free agency.

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1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this, but I think the eternal optimist in me was hoping that we could lose while watching some of our prospects develop. I'm still having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that our lineup will be all retreads and castaways this season. I also don't believe that we're putting our best team on the field and I'm wrestling a bit with the ethics of that strategy.  

I think we should remember that we only know the Opening Day roster. There will be numerous changes to the roster over the course of the season and it's likely that Hays, Santander, Scott and Sisco spend a couple months in the bigs this year. 

Even of adding Hays et al. to the roster would make for putting the best team on the field, it's still probable that the team loses 90+ games and is mathematically eliminated from the playoff hunt by mid-August. I appreciate the ethical conundrum, but I wonder whether the number of wins by this year's team can be improved by more than a couple by putting the bast team on the field.

Heck, Elias may not even know what the best team would be out of the marginal major-leaguers he is dealing with.

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14 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

I think we should remember that we only know the Opening Day roster. There will be numerous changes to the roster over the course of the season and it's likely that Hays, Santander, Scott and Sisco spend a couple months in the bigs this year. 

Even of adding Hays et al. to the roster would make for putting the best team on the field, it's still probable that the team loses 90+ games and is mathematically eliminated from the playoff hunt by mid-August. I appreciate the ethical conundrum, but I wonder whether the number of wins by this year's team can be improved by more than a couple by putting the bast team on the field.

Heck, Elias may not even know what the best team would be out of the marginal major-leaguers he is dealing with.

Good point. I just have a "hunch" that the plan is to keep them down all season, but we'll have to see how it plays out. 

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14 hours ago, SteveA said:

They will never say it out loud, but do you think some guys are being kept down longer than they might normally be because they believe the prior regimes did not develop players the "right" way, and they want these guys to spend some extra time in the minors to make up for those shortcomings in their background?

Mark Viviano espoused this exact theory on Wall to Wall Baseball last weekend.   

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14 hours ago, SteveA said:

They will never say it out loud, but do you think some guys are being kept down longer than they might normally be because they believe the prior regimes did not develop players the "right" way, and they want these guys to spend some extra time in the minors to make up for those shortcomings in their background?

If they were flirting with position changes I could understand this, but if a player can hit in spring training I'm not sure why you don't at least give him a few weeks to see if it carries over into the regular season. I really think it's all about service time manipulation and blatantly tanking this season. 

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19 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If they were flirting with position changes I could understand this, but if a player can hit in spring training I'm not sure why you don't at least give him a few weeks to see if it carries over into the regular season. I really think it's all about service time manipulation and blatantly tanking this season. 

What player other than Hays can you make a service time argument for? 

The starting pitching will tank the season regardless of who the position players are.  

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15 hours ago, SteveA said:

They will never say it out loud, but do you think some guys are being kept down longer than they might normally be because they believe the prior regimes did not develop players the "right" way, and they want these guys to spend some extra time in the minors to make up for those shortcomings in their background?

Um, didn't Elias come out and say directly yesterday that we rushed some guys' development in the past?  Specifically naming Sisco and Hays?

I would say that was a direct criticism of the previous regime.

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Here is the quote taken from Roch's blog:

"“One lesson that those of us who have been in player development have learned is minor league stats in the regular season have a lot more predictive power than spring training stats. The situation that we’re in, we want to err on having the correct development path for these guys and some of them, (Austin) Hays and Sisco in particular, they came up here really fast at really young ages and didn’t have the normal sort of normal graduation progression that a prospect normally needs to have and if we provide that for him, I think it’ll be for their long-term benefit and our long-term benefit."

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