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Aristotelian

Hyde's Decisions 2019

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11 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Yup, but, I knew at the time, it would be be over analyzed here. My son told me Facebook blew up last night with the ignorant rantings of the fans.

They were mad they didn't get to watch Hess go for the no-hitter. Not mad that Hess didn't get a chance at a no hitter.  I don't think Hyde is saving Hess' arm and is naive to think he is but in the big picture it doesn't really matter whether Hess gets a no hitter or not. 

What matters to Hess is whether he continues to have success pitching in the big leagues. 

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15 minutes ago, atomic said:

There isn't evidence that low pitch counts and low innings help you avoid Tommy John surgery. But I am Ok with pulling Hess. Going out without giving up a hit  is great and it seems he has great confidence with his catcher.  

The pitch count and inning count thing is just a joke.  There is no evidence to back it up  and players are getting injured more.  It is certainly not backed up by analytics.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1622573-do-innings-limits-pitch-counts-actually-prevent-serious-injuries

 

 

Injuries have nothing to do with it. It has to do with effectiveness. Players are on pitch limits to maximize their effectiveness over an entire 162 game season of competitive innings. Seems straightforward. It's bizarre to bring up Bundy and Harvey's minors workload in a discussion about what happened in last night's game. They have nothing to do with one another.

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3 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Injuries have nothing to do with it. It has to do with effectiveness. Players are on pitch limits to maximize their effectiveness over an entire 162 game season of competitive innings. Seems straightforward. It's bizarre to bring up Bundy and Harvey's minors workload in a discussion about what happened in last night's game. They have nothing to do with one another.

 

3 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Injuries have nothing to do with it. It has to do with effectiveness. Players are on pitch limits to maximize their effectiveness over an entire 162 game season of competitive innings. Seems straightforward. It's bizarre to bring up Bundy and Harvey's minors workload in a discussion about what happened in last night's game. They have nothing to do with one another.

You don't like facts in discussions do you. These pitch counts have no scientific basis.  You could tell Givens was fatigued the other day and Hyde kept him in.  That is how players get injured.  

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4 minutes ago, Natty said:

Maybe we shouldn't use our scheduled starters as relievers the same week. 

Yeah that is what it comes down to.  Could have started Hess second game of the season.  We need to get rid of the second utility guy.  We don't need two.  We need more relievers and Pedro doesn't count for one either. 

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3 minutes ago, Natty said:

Maybe we shouldn't use our scheduled starters as relievers the same week. 

That’s by far the more questionable decision of the two.

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Just now, Frobby said:

That’s by far the more questionable decision of the two.

If there's a gripe to be had here, it's maybe this one. I'm guessing Hyde wanted to save some of his long relievers for the next couple games. 

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52 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Honestly, the complaints about pulling Hess last night are some of the worst, ill-founded criticism regarding a game related move since I've been at the Hangout - since 2002.  

If folks can't get understand that this season is about player development, then they can miss the boat.  It will leave without them.  

How far up the risk ladder should the Os go in placing individual accomplishment over player health?  I wouldn't even get on the first step on that ladder and it appears our FO is in sync with that.  

Consider the source before we get too upset over the board overall, but I agree with you. While it adds a lot of discussion, I may have to purge some stupidity in order to get some sense back to the board.

Even if you believe Hess should not have been taken out and don't believe in pitch counts, an educated fan would at least admire the fact that Hyde stuck to a plan that his organization put in place. I'm sure the pitching coach and probably Elias along with Hyde came up with the pitch count for Hess tonight. You don't deviate from the plan in the 7th inning in the 1st week of the season due to an emotional response to having a no-hitter.

Look around baseball. Most pitchers are not going more than 90 pitches in their first starts and considering Hess pitched 42 pitches on Thursday, you certainly aren't going to push him.

The only people making a big deal out of this are people that just don't understand or agree with how baseball is played now. If this was the middle of the season, and Hess was stretched out fully, I'd have questions as well, but when you look at all of the facts of the situation, I actually feel better about Hyde as manager and he's gained respect in my eyes for making a tough "emotional" decision.

Listening to Hess' comments after the game shows me how much respect Hess and the other players have for Hyde. It is clear that he's a very good leader who is willing to do what's best for this team and players long term. For a team that is going to end up in last place most likely, that's a really, really good attribute to have in a manager.




 

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2 minutes ago, atomic said:

 

You don't like facts in discussions do you. These pitch counts have no scientific basis.  You could tell Givens was fatigued the other day and Hyde kept him in.  That is how players get injured.  

High pitch counts don't correlate to injuries but a pitcher who's fatigued from a high pitch count is a risk for injury? Impeccable logic there. But again, Hess wasn't pulled for that reason. He was pulled because it's April 2nd and they want to maximize his velocity and effectiveness for all 162 games. That cannot happen if you overuse him this early. And it has nothing to do with the plans for teenagers in the minors.

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10 minutes ago, esmd said:

I will say, I did appreciate Hess showing the desire to stay in the game and pushing back on Hyde when he pulled him.  That's what you want out of a pitcher, that bulldog mentality.  And I'm still glad that Hyde ignored that and pulled him for his own good.

I thought this was good. Pedro asked Davis if he thought he had the no hitter in him. David says he thought so, but would have enjoyed finding out. 

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23 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Nice post.

We knew this was going to be a long season, but am shocked at how upset some of the posters are.

You would think we was 0-21.

Its not going to sustain for the entire season, I get it.

Enjoy it while we can.

Yeah, it just goes to show you that the common emotional fan really doesn't understand what the Orioles are doing. I can understand the initial reaction when Hess was taken out, even I was a little surprised, but then I thought about the entire situation and it made sense.

I get people who don't believe in any kind of pitch count, I don't agree, but I can understand that point of view, but to take it out on him like he's an imbecile for following the plan is just ignorant at best.

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4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Consider the source before we get too upset over the board overall, but I agree with you. While it adds a lot of discussion, I may have to purge some stupidity in order to get some sense back to the board.

 Even if you believe Hess should not have been taken out and don't believe in pitch counts, an educated fan would at least admire the fact that Hyde stuck to a plan that his organization put in place. I'm sure the pitching coach and probably Elias along with Hyde came up with the pitch count for Hess tonight. You don't deviate from the plan in the 7th inning in the 1st week of the season due to an emotional response to having a no-hitter.

 Look around baseball. Most pitchers are not going more than 90 pitches in their first starts and considering Hess pitched 42 pitches on Thursday, you certainly aren't going to push him.

 The only people making a big deal out of this are people that just don't understand or agree with how baseball is played now. If this was the middle of the season, and Hess was stretched out fully, I'd have questions as well, but when you look at all of the facts of the situation, I actually feel better about Hyde as manager and he's gained respect in my eyes for making a tough "emotional" decision.

 Listening to Hess' comments after the game shows me how much respect Hess and the other players have for Hyde. It is clear that he's a very good leader who is willing to do what's best for this team and players long term. For a team that is going to end up in last place most likely, that's a really, really good attribute to have in a manager.




 

If you saw Hyde sweating on the bench profusely before the last out was made I think he was having second thoughts about his pitching decisions during the game.  

The players seem to like Hyde which is great.  The team is winning.  I have no problem removing Hess  in retrospect.   Hopefully Hess keeps continuing to develop.  I am not sure why everyone is so down on his future. He looked better than some of the veteran pitchers last season and he throws hard and has secondary pitches.  

I certainly don't think the manager should be thinking his team will be ending up in last place.  He should try and win as most games as possible during the season with keeping an eye on the future.  

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Quote

Hyde ain’t scared.

Of laundry carts, pulling Chris Davis for a pinch-hitter on opening day or taking out a pitcher working on a no-hitter.

If there’s a strange noise in the attic, I’m sending up Hyde.

MASNSports.com

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I dont know I didn't catch the game  (I watched most of the first 3 wheres my medal?) but I am just stoked Hess did so well.  Id rather him "lose" the no hitter than tank and have a needless L.  Lots of games to play, we need a strong rotation (innings wise) to prevent full on dumpster fire.  

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7 minutes ago, LTO's said:

High pitch counts don't correlate to injuries but a pitcher who's fatigued from a high pitch count is a risk for injury? Impeccable logic there. But again, Hess wasn't pulled for that reason. He was pulled because it's April 2nd and they want to maximize his velocity and effectiveness for all 162 games. That cannot happen if you overuse him this early. And it has nothing to do with the plans for teenagers in the minors.

It isn't high pitch count it is fatigued arms.  If a players arm is feeling fatigued you pull him.  Givens was obviously done.  You need to go beyond pitch counts and look at each player and situation. 

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