Jump to content
JohnD

MASN dispute update

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Beetlejuice said:

True, but MASN’s maintenance of the money and the clerk’s interest determination are two different things.

I'm just guessing here but if the O's were not able to invest the money I don't see why interest would be an issue.

Edit- Oh interest has to be paid from April 15th on.  That won't be much at all in the grand scheme of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Beetlejuice said:

Probably more lawsuits. 

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

Help me out here Frobby.  I've lost track.  What is the current payment that the O's have to make and is it different from the original ruling?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Help me out here Frobby.  I've lost track.  What is the current payment that the O's have to make and is it different from the original ruling?

Very moderately different.   The five year total is very close but the growth rate is slower, so that future awards if they apply the same logic should be less than they would have been under the prior rationale.   I think the awards went from about $55 mm to $65 mm over the 5 years covered by the ruling, with a total of $296 mm for the 5 years.   

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we could just send them Chris Davis???  His present value would cover the interest and a little more.  Just put him in a box, tape it up, and send it to Nationals Park certified mail.  Problems solved.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Maybe we could just send them Chris Davis???  His present value would cover the interest and a little more.  Just put him in a box, tape it up, and send it to Nationals Park certified mail.  Problems solved.

giphy.gif

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/16/2019 at 10:03 PM, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

At this point, this is throwing good money after bad.  Any appeal is almost certain to be doomed.  What error has the court committed to warrant review?  Angelos just lived through one of his biggest fears.  The Nats winning a World Series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/16/2019 at 10:03 PM, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

What does truly finished mean?  Didn't this start as part of the negotiations for the 2012-16 rights fees?  What happens for 2017-21?  The next 5 years beyond that?  Do the lawsuits never end?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Beetlejuice said:

At this point, this is throwing good money after bad.  Any appeal is almost certain to be doomed.  What error has the court committed to warrant review?  Angelos just lived through one of his biggest fears.  The Nats winning a World Series.

I agree their chances are grim.  I believe in the last round of appeals, the NY Court of Appeals (highest court in NY) refused to hear the question of whether the case was properly remanded to the RSDC instead of an unaffiliated arbitrator, on the grounds that they would only consider it after there was a “final” ruling by the lower courts on all issues.   The intermediate court had split 3-2 on that issue, so I suppose there’s some hope there.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

What does truly finished mean?  Didn't this start as part of the negotiations for the 2012-16 rights fees?  What happens for 2017-21?  The next 5 years beyond that?  Do the lawsuits never end?

Hard to say, because the O’s and Nats may not do what rational business people would do.    But in my opinion, the rationale of the RSDC is pretty clear, and if it is affirmed by the courts, it is pretty straightforward to apply that same rationale to future periods, making the necessary adjustments based on MASN’s revenues and expenses at the time.     The difference between the highest and lowest possible amount based on that reasoning won’t be that drastic, and reasonable people would just compromise in the middle somewhere and move on with life.     But this is a blood feud, so who knows.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I agree their chances are grim.  I believe in the last round of appeals, the NY Court of Appeals (highest court in NY) refused to hear the question of whether the case was properly remanded to the RSDC instead of an unaffiliated arbitrator, on the grounds that they would only consider it after there was a “final” ruling by the lower courts on all issues.   The intermediate court had split 3-2 on that issue, so I suppose there’s some hope there.   

Correct me if I’m wrong.  INAL, but am married to one and the way she’s explained it to me appeals aren’t an opportunity to relitigate a case, but only to review the lower court’s decision to see if they made an error in applying the law.  IIRC the O’s/MASN strategy in the latest decision was to hammer on the evident partiality angle, particularly the $25M loan and Manfred’s public statements.  The judge wasn't even remotely convinced. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Beetlejuice said:

Correct me if I’m wrong.  INAL, but am married to one and the way she’s explained it to me appeals aren’t an opportunity to relitigate a case, but only to review the lower court’s decision to see if they made an error in applying the law.  IIRC the O’s/MASN strategy in the latest decision was to hammer on the evident partiality angle, particularly the $25M loan and Manfred’s public statements.  The judge wasn't even remotely convinced. 

INAL is a thing?

You are basically right.    The standard for overturning a factual determination is very high.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hard to say, because the O’s and Nats may not do what rational business people would do.    But in my opinion, the rationale of the RSDC is pretty clear, and if it is affirmed by the courts, it is pretty straightforward to apply that same rationale to future periods, making the necessary adjustments based on MASN’s revenues and expenses at the time.     The difference between the highest and lowest possible amount based on that reasoning won’t be that drastic, and reasonable people would just compromise in the middle somewhere and move on with life.     But this is a blood feud, so who knows.   

There is almost no chance that MASN and the Nationals will agree upon FMV, because of said blood feud.  So this will be kicked to the RSDC.  Isn’t the FMV supposed to be determined at the beginning of the period since the Nats and Os are supposed to be paid annually?  If so I fully expect the Nats to press for a determination sooner rather than later.

This bugaboo needs to be put to rest, if only for the sake of O’s fans.  They’ve got to be pissed at Angelos fighting over every nickel in a pique of jealousy instead of focusing on a sorely needed rebuild strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • I would not think so. We got a lot for Givens. 
    • 8 games left and he is now at 92 at-bats after getting 3 at-bats in each of the last 3 games (11 plate appearances total). Helps keep the at-bats down when the team can't score any runs. Would need 38 at-bats over the final 8 games to lose rookie/prospect eligibility. Mountcastle has only had 5 at-bats in 3 games thus far this season, so the chances of him getting 5 at-bats in 6 of his final 8 games are pretty much non-existent. 
    • As of 9-19 Sisco  0 PB 13 WP -3 dRS -2.7 dWAR  Overall 0.3 fWAR Severino  5 PB 15 WP -1DRS dWAR. 04 Overall .7 fWAR  I included wild pitches Because it can be debatable whether the blame should be on the catcher or the pitcher, but Sisco Is clearly better at stopping pitches. But neither of these guys will make any other team go googly eyed.
    • This is where Sisco is today the 19th. He has improved, in K and BB rats especially, but I don’t think anyone is going to be in a rush to trade anything meaningful for him. His defense remains bad and he offers nothing as a runner.  32.4 K rate .340 BABIP .235 AVG .381 OBP 125 WRC .03 fWAR
    • I’m pretty sure he would be claimed, but that would actually be good for the Orioles. If he does, he gets the benefit of coaching from the new team, and we can watch him develop, or not, on a real life stage. If it is unlikely that he does well Enough to stick, when he returns to us, we will have had the benefit of the empty roster spot, but also the benefit another team coaching, and whatever experience he has on the major league stage, if he gets that far. And when he returns to us, we will have that much more knowledge and can deal with him more effectively. Of course there’s always the risk that he makes it all the way with his new team, and I guess that’s the risk we have to take. After all, TJ McFarland has had a pretty good career throwing in the upper 80s.
    • Severino is the one of those that I can best imagine attaining some actual market value. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2020-positional-power-rankings-catcher/ The team will need to wait out the Realmuto bidding for the good teams that need a catcher.  If we just guess the Phillies retain, the bottom-tier catching situations from this summer on clubs that perhaps mean to contend in 2021 look like: COL - happy to do business with them again DET - Schoop repping the former Oriole brand well WAS - haha.  Imagine the WS tenure helps the incumbents CIN - will try not to have a Tyler Mahle infatuation here, they could maybe use Alberto too.  Nunez as fill-in with Votto salary relief? NYM - ibid Colorado HOU - do Elias Sig still have some nuanced favorites even James Click doesn't have his arms around yet?
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...