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TonySoprano

Are Baseballs "Juiced" This Season?

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I think it's pretty silly to think that all of this sudden just now in 2019 did all these players collectively started taking PEDs. AAA is all the proof I need to know it's the ball.

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It won't change the data already accumulated.  This whole thing started part of the way through a season right?  All Star break 2015 maybe?  It wouldn't be shocking if MLB decided they overdid things a bit and dialed the balls back a bit at some point.

That's definitely something MLB would do, and then sometime later they'll try to sneak the new balls by the public again.  It's like they're ashamed of it or something.

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9 hours ago, Maverick Hiker said:

Mantle, Mays, and Aaron did not use PEDs.]

 I do not consider amphetamines PED, they did not drastically improve a players abilities, the way that HGH and steroids can. 

Of course they did as others have pointed out to you. Aaron had some of the best seasons of his career after the age of 35 and had one of the best seasons in MLB history at 39. Also, consider that in 1973, a congressional subcommittee was tasked to investigate the prevalence of drug use in MLB and found (part of the more recent hearings) and was also included in the Mitchell Report.
 

Quote

 

In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found — and I quote — “drug use exists ¦ in all sports and levels of competition ¦ In some instances, the degree of improper drug use — primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids — can only be described as alarming.”

The Committee’s chairman — Harley Staggers — was concerned that making those findings public in a hearing would garner excessive attention and might actually encourage teenagers to use steroids. Instead, he quietly met with the commissioners of the major sports, and they assured him the problem would be taken care of.

Chairman Staggers urged Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kuhn to consider instituting tough penalties and testing. And he trusted Commissioner Kuhn to do that. In fact, in a press release in May 1973, Chairman Staggers said — and again I quote — “Based on the constructive responses and assurances I have received from these gentlemen, I think self-regulation will be intensified, and will be effective.”

But as we now know from 30 years of history, baseball failed to regulate itself.

 

Do you get it now? Steroids were widespread in the 60's and 70's, possibly even as far back as the 50's. We may never know that for sure, but it's certainly conceivable. Take Tom House's comments on the matter:
 

Quote

 

House, later an accomplished pitching coach with Texas and now co-founder of the National Pitching Association near San Diego, said performance- enhancing drugs were widespread in baseball in the 1960s and '70s. He and his teammates laughed and rationalized losses by saying, "We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed. And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them."

House described the dynamic as similar to the majors in recent years: Players knew their competition had chemical help and felt compelled to keep pace. He said he and several teammates used amphetamines (known as "greenies"), human growth hormone and "whatever steroid" they could find.

"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey," House said in a phone interview. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew.

...

House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff were "fiddling" with steroids or growth hormone. He said the drugs and devoted conditioning improved his recovery, but his velocity didn't budge.

 

It's about time people stopped romanticizing and making excuses for the players of the past and hold them to the same standards you hold players to today. Many of them were using steroids and amphetamines. It was never clean and it never will be. You can't put that cat back in the bag.

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4 hours ago, jabba72 said:

What about the AAA Homerun totals at an all-time high pace as well? I think the balls are juiced, and should be reversed hopefully by next season. Guys in their mid 30's aren't dominating the sport like they were 10-15 years ago, which goes against the PED theory.  If PED's do anything, its prolong peak performance years after a players prime should have left. 

Position players with 2+ WAR, aged 35+:

1999:11
2000: 13
2001: 11
2002: 13

2015: 5
2016: 5
2017: 3
2018: 7

Kind of looks like something's going on with the old guys.

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1 hour ago, Sessh said:

It's about time people stopped romanticizing and making excuses for the players of the past and hold them to the same standards you hold players to today. Many of them were using steroids and amphetamines. It was never clean and it never will be. You can't put that cat back in the bag.

People who grew up idolizing Willie, Mickey, and The Duke wanted to believe this was a problem of those darned kids from the 1990s and 2000s, not their heros. 

But if you're born in 2000 or 2010 Mickey Mantle has as much relevance to you as Ty Cobb does to me.  Cool to read old stories, but no emotional attachment that skews your objectivity.  History will mostly sort it out, eventually.

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5 hours ago, jabba72 said:

I think the balls are juiced, and should be reversed hopefully by next season.

Not if they want to increase the sport's popularity, they won't. Fans love home runs. Last night was a great example. Without those "juiced balls", last night wouldn't have happened. I don't even like home run derbys and even I got into that one. The last thing baseball needs now is less scoring and less home runs. We already tried that for about 10 years and it hasn't worked out. If you're not going to let the players juice, then you have to juice the ball. The alternative is an even more boring sport where even less happens and less of a chance to lure in any new fans. The game has to be exciting. Home runs are exciting.

I really don't get you guys. The sooner you understand that baseball has never been clean and just about every record set in this sport has been done with the help of PEDs, the better. Either juice the balls, make some PEDs legal to use under controlled circumstances or the sport is done. PEDs are at the foundation of the success of all sports and we see what happens when you try to remove it. The commissioner starts demolishing the fabric of the sport with stupid rules trying to replace what was lost by making every game a race to the finish which will only make things worse because it ignores the elephant in the room; the attempted removal of PEDs from baseball is at the root of all that's going wrong with it now.

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26 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Not if they want to increase the sport's popularity, they won't. Fans love home runs. Last night was a great example. Without those "juiced balls", last night wouldn't have happened. I don't even like home run derbys and even I got into that one. The last thing baseball needs now is less scoring and less home runs. We already tried that for about 10 years and it hasn't worked out. If you're not going to let the players juice, then you have to juice the ball. The alternative is an even more boring sport where even less happens and less of a chance to lure in any new fans. The game has to be exciting. Home runs are exciting.

I really don't get you guys. The sooner you understand that baseball has never been clean and just about every record set in this sport has been done with the help of PEDs, the better. Either juice the balls, make some PEDs legal to use under controlled circumstances or the sport is done. PEDs are at the foundation of the success of all sports and we see what happens when you try to remove it. The commissioner starts demolishing the fabric of the sport with stupid rules trying to replace what was lost by making every game a race to the finish which will only make things worse because it ignores the elephant in the room; the attempted removal of PEDs from baseball is at the root of all that's going wrong with it now.

That seems like a fairly ridiculous statement.    I think the root is the increasing velocity of pitches, which certainly doesn’t stem from less PED’s.

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I don't think anything is wrong with baseball except for the way it's being marketed, but that's just me. 

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Just now, Luke-OH said:

I don't think anything is wrong with baseball except for the way it's being marketed, but that's just me. 

I prefer the 2014 version but I'm not turned off.

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9 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

lol, amphetamines have a proven, statistically significant performance enhancing effect. HGH does not. This thought process is wild to me. I just don't get it. Amphetamines have an immediate game day effect on performance. Steriods require continual dosage and significant hard work to fully take advantage of, amphetamines are easy cheat pills. 

 

No, You have it backwards.  HGH and steroids enable players to make a mockery of the game.  I saw Bonds hitting many times when he was on the juice, it was ridiculous. His plate coverage and bat speed were unnatural, so was his build.  He broke the HR records because of steroids. Bonds  could have taken the best amphetamines in the world and he would never have come close to what he did with steroids.  McGwire would not have broken Maris' 61 HR record if not for steroids. 

Amphetamines help a tired player achieve close to his natural ability when he is tired, like after a night game.  They do not make him look like the Hulk or enable him to break HR records. 

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Just now, Maverick Hiker said:

No, You have it backwards.  HGH and steroids enable players to make a mockery of the game.  I saw Bonds hitting many times when he was on the juice, it was ridiculous. His plate coverage and bat speed were unnatural, so was his build.  He broke the HR records because of steroids. Bonds  could have taken the best amphetamines in the world and he would never have come close to what he did with steroids.  McGwire would not have broken Maris' 61 HR record if not for steroids. 

Amphetamines help a tired player achieve close to his natural ability when he is tired, like after a night game.  They do not make him look like the Hulk or enable him to break HR records. 

Funny how Luke mentions " proven, statistically significant performance enhancing effect" and you mention " I saw".

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1 minute ago, Maverick Hiker said:

No, You have it backwards.  HGH and steroids enable players to make a mockery of the game.  I saw Bonds hitting many times when he was on the juice, it was ridiculous. His plate coverage and bat speed were unnatural, so was his build.  He broke the HR records because of steroids. Bonds  could have taken the best amphetamines in the world and he would never have come close to what he did with steroids.  McGwire would not have broken Maris' 61 HR record if not for steroids. 

Amphetamines help a tired player achieve close to his natural ability when he is tired, like after a night game.  They do not make him look like the Hulk or enable him to break HR records. 

Anecdotal evidence vs data based evidence

HGH doesn't do anything, so let's leave it out of this. Steroids do, I'm not arguing that Steroids aren't PEDs, but that amphetamines are just as much a PED as Steroids, both are cheating,

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