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TonySoprano

Are Baseballs "Juiced" This Season?

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I have never thought players in the early 70's could've been on steroids. And I can recall well those times and those players, I followed MLB closely as a teenager. 

However some of the comments on this forum have made me start to question my long held beliefs that steroid usage didn't start until the late 90's.

Hank Aaron hit 40 HR and .301 in 1973 for the Braves, at age 39.  That same year Davey Johnson was traded from the Orioles to the Braves. Davey had never hit more than 14 HR for the Orioles, and he averaged about 10 HR per year. So he goes to Atlanta in 1973 and hits 43 HR. Darrell Evans also hit 41 HR for the Braves in 1973.

Could it've been the smaller park helped Davey Johnson and the others? Or was there something else going on in Atlanta in 1973?  I guess we'll never know now. 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Maverick Hiker said:

I have never thought players in the early 70's could've been on steroids. And I can recall well those times and those players, I followed MLB closely as a teenager. 

However some of the comments on this forum have made me start to question my long held beliefs that steroid usage didn't start until the late 90's.

Hank Aaron hit 40 HR and .301 in 1973 for the Braves, at age 39.  That same year Davey Johnson was traded from the Orioles to the Braves. Davey had never hit more than 14 HR for the Orioles, and he averaged about 10 HR per year. So he goes to Atlanta in 1973 and hits 43 HR. Darrell Evans also hit 41 HR for the Braves in 1973.

Could it've been the smaller park helped Davey Johnson and the others? Or was there something else going on in Atlanta in 1973?  I guess we'll never know now. 

 

 

 

 

 

Steroids started with the Russian weightlifters in the late 40's early 50's. They pretty much followed weight training from sport to sport. When baseball started weight training in the early 70's steroids went along. Hank averaged 36 HR a year and rarely hit more Than 40 I doubt he ever used PED's except for greenies.

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58 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Steroids started with the Russian weightlifters in the late 40's early 50's. They pretty much followed weight training from sport to sport. When baseball started weight training in the early 70's steroids went along. Hank averaged 36 HR a year and rarely hit more Than 40 I doubt he ever used PED's except for greenies.

Perhaps not but at age 39 some deterioration has usually set in for MLB players, if you look at the whole history of the sport. Also how do you explain Davey Johnson going from 10 HR per year to over 40 when he went to the Braves and played with Aaron in 1973?

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12 minutes ago, Maverick Hiker said:

Perhaps not but at age 39 some deterioration has usually set in for MLB players, if you look at the whole history of the sport. Also how do you explain Davey Johnson going from 10 HR per year to over 40 when he went to the Braves and played with Aaron in 1973?

Aaron hit 20 the next year, followed by 12. then 10 so he tailed off his last three years. He never had a big spike like Johnson, or Brady did. They may well have juiced but I doubt Aaron did.

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10 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Steroids started with the Russian weightlifters in the late 40's early 50's. They pretty much followed weight training from sport to sport. When baseball started weight training in the early 70's steroids went along. Hank averaged 36 HR a year and rarely hit more Than 40 I doubt he ever used PED's except for greenies.

Early 40's. I should also add that steroids cause muscle gain even without working out. Someone taking steroids and not working out will still make significant muscle and strength gains. You will gain a lot of muscle even if you're doing nothing but sitting on the couch, but only about half as much as you would if you were working out too. You will gain more muscle taking steroids and not working out than someone would if they were working out and not taking steroids.

Also, steroids were rampant in the 60's as well and if they are rampant in the 60's and 70's, the 50's also have to be questioned at least.

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4 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Also, steroids were rampant in the 60's as well and if they are rampant in the 60's and 70's, the 50's also have to be questioned at least.

I guess the question is, how rampant?    I personally think that the percentage of players using steroids was drastically higher from the late ‘80’s to the mid-2000’s than it was either before or after.   Can I prove that?   No.

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10 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Hank averaged 36 HR a year and rarely hit more Than 40 I doubt he ever used PED's except for greenies.

Three of those 40 HR seasons came in his age 35+ seasons. Career high in HR's (47) at the age of 37. Highest SLG of his career at the age of 39. Three of his five 1.000+ OPS seasons in his age 35+ years. Aaron didn't age normally until after he passed Ruth. Of course there's a lot to be suspicious of there.

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2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I guess the question is, how rampant?    I personally think that the percentage of players using steroids was drastically higher from the late ‘80’s to the mid-2000’s than it was either before or after.   Can I prove that?   No.

According to the Congressional Subcommittee's findings, the rates of use were at alarming levels in all sports. Tom House's candid statements indicate that most of the league was on PEDs including anabolic steroids in the 60's. There's plenty of guys that came out and said how rampant amphetamine use was as well. Why would you say drastically higher? Is it because the results were better? I tend to believe usage rates were roughly the same through all these years with the drugs being better producing more drastic results and giving the illusion that usage rates were higher.

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24 minutes ago, Sessh said:

According to the Congressional Subcommittee's findings, the rates of use were at alarming levels in all sports. Tom House's candid statements indicate that most of the league was on PEDs including anabolic steroids in the 60's. There's plenty of guys that came out and said how rampant amphetamine use was as well. Why would you say drastically higher? Is it because the results were better? I tend to believe usage rates were roughly the same through all these years with the drugs being better producing more drastic results and giving the illusion that usage rates were higher.

Do you have any data, links, etc. to back up these suppositions?

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25 minutes ago, Sessh said:

According to the Congressional Subcommittee's findings, the rates of use were at alarming levels in all sports. Tom House's candid statements indicate that most of the league was on PEDs including anabolic steroids in the 60's. There's plenty of guys that came out and said how rampant amphetamine use was as well. Why would you say drastically higher? Is it because the results were better? I tend to believe usage rates were roughly the same through all these years with the drugs being better producing more drastic results and giving the illusion that usage rates were higher.

Yes, mostly because of the results.    Your alternative explanation is certainly possible.    It’s also possible that it’s because the players combined the steroids with serious weight training beginning around the late 80’s, instead of just letting the steroids do all the work.     But I certainly remember that the first player I ever heard being openly accused of taking steroids was Jose Canseco, by Tom Boswell early in Canseco’s career.   

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20 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Side note - am I the only one that finds it curious Frank Thomas is doing Nugenix commercials?

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/men-s-health/testosterone-booster/

 

20 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I find it hilarious given how strongly he opposed PEDs during his playing days.

It's extra hilarious that the product's name is a not-so-thinly veiled reference to Eugenics.  Take our product and you'll become a superior human. 

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Yes, mostly because of the results.    Your alternative explanation is certainly possible.    It’s also possible that it’s because the players combined the steroids with serious weight training beginning around the late 80’s, instead of just letting the steroids do all the work.     But I certainly remember that the first player I ever heard being openly accused of taking steroids was Jose Canseco, by Tom Boswell early in Canseco’s career.   

It's possible that the 80's is when some players started to sour on steroids, but it doesn't seem like very many cared about it in the 60's and 70's. Canseco was the first I remember as well to which he responded by flipping the board and pointing out to people that he wasn't doing anything most other guys weren't also doing. I can also buy the idea that guys started hitting the gym more often as well.

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