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Is this team worse than last year?

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35 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No. Just no.  Do you not remember 30-3?  Do you not remember Raffy wagging his finger at Congress?  Or the deaths of Steve Bechler and Mike Flanagan? Or the year they ended the season 4-32?  Or Chris Smith, Matt Hobgood, Adam Loewen, Josh Cenate, Keith Reed, Rich Stahl, Mike Paradis, Beau Hale, Wade Townsend, Garret Olson, and Billy Rowell?  Have you forgotten Deivi Cruz?  Jay Gibbons?   Aubrey Huff calling Baltimore a ******* town before he'd played a game here?  Steve Kline ripping the organization in the press.  Felix Pie?  Sammy Sosa!  Beer league softball player Ty Wigginton playing shortstop?  Luis Hernandez starting opening day at shortstop, before being replaced by Freddy Bynum.  The fact that Cesar Izturis was a HUGE upgrade from Hernandez and Bynum.  Karim Garcia playing center field.  Syd Thrift trying to trade for players who were retired or otherwise no longer on the team he was talking to?  Marty Cordova falling asleep in the tanning booth?  Re-signing 40+ versions of Jeff Conine and BJ Surhoff?  Calling up Jeff Fiorentino from A-ball for no apparent reason?  Trading #1 prospect Denny Bautista for 36-year-old middle reliever and PED snitch Jason Grimsley.  Ripping Brian Roberts for not running out every September ground ball on his 9th straight 68-win team.  Surhoff for Trenidad Hubbard, Fernando Lunar, and Luis Rivera.  Ponson drinking and punching his career away.  The Mother's Day massacre.  Daniel Cabrera walking everyone and growing three inches at the age of 24.  The bullpen of Jim Hoey, Rocky Cherry, Victor Santos, Victor Zambrano.  The Jaret Wright experiment.  Brian Matusz' 10.69 ERA.  Derek Lee and Joe Carter.  Garrett Atkins.  Ryan Freel. Matt Riley and his 24 carat arm, 10 cent head.  Russ Ortiz.  Rich Hill.  Hayden Penn, worst baseball name ever.  That's just what I pulled off the top of my head...

All we have today is a year and a couple months of a bad W/L record.

I remember all of this....very bad times that actually were made worse by our failure in 1997 to win the championship that should have been ours.  However, all of this really captures why 2012 was such an amazing season....probably my favorite as an Orioles fan given how 1997 and 2014 ended.  

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21 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Nice dark days player summary. Let's not forget how the team was run. Losing a AAA home after 41 years in Rochester because of bad product and how it was run. At the time the longest running affiliation between a major- league and Triple A team at the time. Ending up in Ottawa with no fans and a sad stadium . Spring Training in Miami with the weight room or so called under a tent that leaked. Being a Spring Training nomad for many years. Teams would not play on the Orioles minor league Spring Training field due to terrible field conditions. Had an agreement to move the AAA team to Harrisburg but messed that up by asking for more concessions from the state and city. 

And losing Bluefield as the rookie league team, after having them as an O's affiliate from 1958-2010.  The spring training facility stuff was a true debacle.  Weren't there seasons where the minor league and MLB teams practiced at different locations and they had to bus people back and forth?  

Rochester is the one who dumped the Orioles, not the other way around - so many years of bad teams they gave up on the O's.

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11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

And losing Bluefield as the rookie league team, after having them as an O's affiliate from 1958-2010.  The spring training facility stuff was a true debacle.  Weren't there seasons where the minor league and MLB teams practiced at different locations and they had to bus people back and forth?  

Rochester is the one who dumped the Orioles, not the other way around - so many years of bad teams they gave up on the O's.

Yes,the people in Rochester said either get a better product on the field and better run or we will go in another direction. The Orioles at the time thought they were bluffing to get some concessions or something because the Orioles have had a presence with Rochester so long. 

Found this online:

Fort Lauderdale Stadium and neighboring Lockhart Stadium (home of Florida Atlantic University football) feel misplaced among the industrial parks and corporate airport that they are nestled between. As such, the stadium's identity is most often associated with its poor choice of location, which makes spring training feel like an afterthought. Adding to that feeling is the fact that Baltimore's minor leaguers have nowhere to train. Hence the reason why their minor league camp is in Sarasota, making the Orioles the only Major League team to not have all of their players in one location.

 

The Orioles' Minor Leaguers do not train in Fort Lauderdale. Instead, they train at Twin Lakes Park in Sarasota, some 200+ miles away.

 

Even better:

Bathrooms are in such short supply in the grandstand that port-o-potties are found on the concourse.

 

https://www.springtrainingconnection.com/ftlauderdale.html

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16 minutes ago, Orioles1954 said:

Who can forget Vladimir Guerrero collecting one last paycheck before Cooperstown?

The 1998-2011 Orioles I refuse to retire All Stars:

C Paul Bako.  Or Keith Osik.
1B Raffy.  Or Kevin Millar.  Or Derrek Lee.  Or '06 Conine.  Or Garrett Atkins.
2B Ty Wigginton
SS Julio Lugo
3B 2010 Miguel Tejada
LF Sosa
CF Jay Payton
RF Joe Carter
DH Vlad
UT '03-05 Surhoff
UT Ozzie Guillen

SP Russ Ortiz
SP Steve Trachsel
SP Doug Drabek
SP Doug Linton
RP Jason Grimsley
RP Norm Charlton
RP Paul Shuey
RP Steve Reed
 

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1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No. Just no.  Do you not remember 30-3?  Do you not remember Raffy wagging his finger at Congress?  Or the deaths of Steve Bechler and Mike Flanagan? Or the year they ended the season 4-32?  Or Chris Smith, Matt Hobgood, Adam Loewen, Josh Cenate, Keith Reed, Rich Stahl, Mike Paradis, Beau Hale, Wade Townsend, Garret Olson, and Billy Rowell?  Have you forgotten Deivi Cruz?  Jay Gibbons?   Aubrey Huff calling Baltimore a ******* town before he'd played a game here?  Steve Kline ripping the organization in the press.  Felix Pie?  Sammy Sosa!  Beer league softball player Ty Wigginton playing shortstop?  Luis Hernandez starting opening day at shortstop, before being replaced by Freddy Bynum.  The fact that Cesar Izturis was a HUGE upgrade from Hernandez and Bynum.  Karim Garcia playing center field.  Syd Thrift trying to trade for players who were retired or otherwise no longer on the team he was talking to?  Marty Cordova falling asleep in the tanning booth?  Re-signing 40+ versions of Jeff Conine and BJ Surhoff?  Calling up Jeff Fiorentino from A-ball for no apparent reason?  Trading #1 prospect Denny Bautista for 36-year-old middle reliever and PED snitch Jason Grimsley.  Ripping Brian Roberts for not running out every September ground ball on his 9th straight 68-win team.  Surhoff for Trenidad Hubbard, Fernando Lunar, and Luis Rivera.  Ponson drinking and punching his career away.  The Mother's Day massacre.  Daniel Cabrera walking everyone and growing three inches at the age of 24.  The bullpen of Jim Hoey, Rocky Cherry, Victor Santos, Victor Zambrano.  The Jaret Wright experiment.  Brian Matusz' 10.69 ERA.  Derek Lee and Joe Carter.  Garrett Atkins.  Ryan Freel. Matt Riley and his 24 carat arm, 10 cent head.  Russ Ortiz.  Rich Hill.  Hayden Penn, worst baseball name ever.  That's just what I pulled off the top of my head...

All we have today is a year and a couple months of a bad W/L record.

No stop it, please, I can't stand to remember, yes, OK, whatever! You're killing me! I did it, whatever you say, I confess, I'll confess, just let me outta here!

--Mike Hargrove, Ray Miller, Lee Mazzilli, Sam Perlozzo, Dave Trembley, Juan Samuel

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30 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Also Elias is explicitly not trying to win this year. Anyone who is feigning disappointment is being disingenuous or not paying attention to the plan. 

Who cares if Elias made an effort to add veterans and win 75 games. Is that a proper use of resources for a team that does not have unlimited funds like the Yankees or Dodgers?

I think most baseball fans aren't paying attention to the plan. And that's totally fine. Because baseball is an entertainment outlet for them. It's a casual hobby in their lives. They don't spend a few hours looking at a message board every day, or reading up on behind the scenes things. They want to see a decent product on the field. They aren't getting it.

That doesn't make them less of a fan. That doesn't make them less knowledgeable about baseball. That doesn't mean they are less intelligent or less of a person. The general contempt that a lot of posters have toward fans who aren't ecstatic about a rebuild is really off-putting, to be honest.

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1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No. Just no.  Do you not remember 30-3?  Do you not remember Raffy wagging his finger at Congress?  Or the deaths of Steve Bechler and Mike Flanagan? Or the year they ended the season 4-32?  Or Chris Smith, Matt Hobgood, Adam Loewen, Josh Cenate, Keith Reed, Rich Stahl, Mike Paradis, Beau Hale, Wade Townsend, Garret Olson, and Billy Rowell?  Have you forgotten Deivi Cruz?  Jay Gibbons?   Aubrey Huff calling Baltimore a ******* town before he'd played a game here?  Steve Kline ripping the organization in the press.  Felix Pie?  Sammy Sosa!  Beer league softball player Ty Wigginton playing shortstop?  Luis Hernandez starting opening day at shortstop, before being replaced by Freddy Bynum.  The fact that Cesar Izturis was a HUGE upgrade from Hernandez and Bynum.  Karim Garcia playing center field.  Syd Thrift trying to trade for players who were retired or otherwise no longer on the team he was talking to?  Marty Cordova falling asleep in the tanning booth?  Re-signing 40+ versions of Jeff Conine and BJ Surhoff?  Calling up Jeff Fiorentino from A-ball for no apparent reason?  Trading #1 prospect Denny Bautista for 36-year-old middle reliever and PED snitch Jason Grimsley.  Ripping Brian Roberts for not running out every September ground ball on his 9th straight 68-win team.  Surhoff for Trenidad Hubbard, Fernando Lunar, and Luis Rivera.  Ponson drinking and punching his career away.  The Mother's Day massacre.  Daniel Cabrera walking everyone and growing three inches at the age of 24.  The bullpen of Jim Hoey, Rocky Cherry, Victor Santos, Victor Zambrano.  The Jaret Wright experiment.  Brian Matusz' 10.69 ERA.  Derek Lee and Joe Carter.  Garrett Atkins.  Ryan Freel. Matt Riley and his 24 carat arm, 10 cent head.  Russ Ortiz.  Rich Hill.  Hayden Penn, worst baseball name ever.  That's just what I pulled off the top of my head...

All we have today is a year and a couple months of a bad W/L record.

I feel after Elias is fired you will ce out with a similar post about the Elias era. 

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4 minutes ago, atomic said:

I feel after Elias is fired you will ce out with a similar post about the Elias era. 

Really,cant we give it some time before we are ready for the bad Elias era.Like from the other side when Bordick on the tv telecast said Hyde was one of the best managers in the game.Too early to tell about either of these things.

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12 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

 

This organization is historically a losing franchise. They were bad during St. Louis Browns. They were good in 1944, 1960-1966,1968-1983,1989-1997, and 2012-2016 ........ the rest have bee mostly losing years.

 

o

 

The franchise history (1901 - Present) was very bad in Milwaukee and St. Louis from 1901 through 1953, with a few rare exceptions.

The club history (1954 through the present) has been much better since then, even when you include the three 100-loss seasons in 1954, 1988, and 2018, and the 14 consecutive losing seasons between 1998 and 2011. They had winning seasons in 22 out of 23 years between 1963 and 1985, with 1967's 76-85 team being the lone sub-.500 team in that span. 

 

o

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7 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Really,cant we give it some time before we are ready for the bad Elias era.Like from the other side when Bordick on the tv telecast said Hyde was one of the best managers in the game.Too early to tell about either of these things.

Good old Bordick. Hope he never changes lol. 

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16 minutes ago, atomic said:

I feel after Elias is fired you will ce out with a similar post about the Elias era. 

At least you're consistent.  Everything is always a failure.  Even unknowns that won't happen for years.  Even when the organization fails, and then tries a completely different strategy in a different direction.

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43 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The 1998-2011 Orioles I refuse to retire All Stars:

C Paul Bako.  Or Keith Osik.
1B Raffy.  Or Kevin Millar.  Or Derrek Lee.  Or '06 Conine.  Or Garrett Atkins.
2B Ty Wigginton
SS Julio Lugo
3B 2010 Miguel Tejada
LF Sosa
CF Jay Payton
RF Joe Carter
DH Vlad
UT '03-05 Surhoff
UT Ozzie Guillen

SP Russ Ortiz
SP Steve Trachsel
SP Doug Drabek
SP Doug Linton
RP Jason Grimsley
RP Norm Charlton
RP Paul Shuey
RP Steve Reed
 

The all time bizarro Orioles team. 

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51 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The 1998-2011 Orioles I refuse to retire All Stars:

C Paul Bako.  Or Keith Osik.
1B Raffy.  Or Kevin Millar.  Or Derrek Lee.  Or '06 Conine.  Or Garrett Atkins.
2B Ty Wigginton
SS Julio Lugo
3B 2010 Miguel Tejada
LF Sosa
CF Jay Payton
RF Joe Carter
DH Vlad
UT '03-05 Surhoff
UT Ozzie Guillen

SP Russ Ortiz
SP Steve Trachsel
SP Doug Drabek
SP Doug Linton
RP Jason Grimsley
RP Norm Charlton
RP Paul Shuey
RP Steve Reed
 

Don't forget about SP?/RP? Tsuyoshi Wada

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23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

At least you're consistent.  Everything is always a failure.  Even unknowns that won't happen for years.  Even when the organization fails, and then tries a completely different strategy in a different direction.

Wait wasn't this the same strategy Andy Macphail tried?

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57 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The 1998-2011 Orioles I refuse to retire All Stars:

C Paul Bako.  Or Keith Osik.
1B Raffy.  Or Kevin Millar.  Or Derrek Lee.  Or '06 Conine.  Or Garrett Atkins.
2B Ty Wigginton
SS Julio Lugo
3B 2010 Miguel Tejada
LF Sosa
CF Jay Payton
RF Joe Carter
DH Vlad
UT '03-05 Surhoff
UT Ozzie Guillen

SP Russ Ortiz
SP Steve Trachsel
SP Doug Drabek
SP Doug Linton
RP Jason Grimsley
RP Norm Charlton
RP Paul Shuey
RP Steve Reed
 

The only memory I have of Julio Lugo as an Orioles is him yelling at teammate Melvin Mora for stealing second base in the ninth inning of a blow-out. Lugo then struck out and essentially blamed Mora. 

Great teammate.

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