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This may be the worst team of all time

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21 minutes ago, atomic said:

The Tigers have Shane Greene to prop up their bullpen.  But if he is traded they will probably sink to the Orioles level. 

Both now have the same amount of wins.I know the Tigers have played four fewer games.I might win my bet of this Oriole team winning more games then last year. 

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16 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

When the O's recall Dan Straily and the Tigers recall Mike Mahtook, you'll know it's on.

"In the search for the first draft pick the Detroit tigers sign Jeremy Bonderman and Mike Maroth out of retirement."

"Orioles drag Paul Shuey from whatever stream he was fishing in."

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7 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

As of this morning the Orioles are 29-66, so they need to go at least 10-57 (.175) the rest of the way to avoid being the worst team since 1900.  They need at least 12-55 (.179) to pass the '62 Mets.

And we are 7-8 in our last 15 games.

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In my sixty-plus years as a baseball fan, I've rooted for some really bad teams. My earliest rooting interests were the Phillies and Kansas City A's of the late 50s and early 60s, and those teams stunk. The Orioles of the previous decade had some real stinkers.

But this is different. I've seen plenty of bad teams that said they were "rebuilding"  or adopting a "youth movements." But until recently, the vast majority of those teams, and all those that I rooted for (a) retained, or in some cases went out and acquired, established major leaguers, including All-Stars or even future Hall of Famers, who were past their prime, and (b) promoted the stars of their minor league systems as soon as they were ready to face major league pitching or hitting (and in some cases, probably before they were). These teams gave every appearance of trying to win as many games and finish as high in the standings as their spotty talent could take them. They acted as if they wanted to move up from the previous season, and desperate to finish out of their league's or division's cellar.

The full-on Astros-style of extreme rebuild is a recent development. It may have antecedents in Connie Mack's blowing up of his championship teams in 1915 and again in the 1930s, or in the Marlins' approach to the cycle of building and then leveling championship teams since 1997. But there are differences, including the fact that the Astros' success with this model has led, and is likely to continue to lead, multiple teams to adopt it, by (a) trading off veterans with trade value and (b) deferring the promotion of top prospects from the minor leagues, with little or no concern for winning games now or escaping last place, and in many cases appearing to angle for a top (or the top) choice in the amateur draft.

What is it, other than the Astros' success and a desire to imitate it, that is inducing teams to play with depleted major league rosters? Obviously, the way the amateur draft rewards lousy play is a factor, but that's been around for over 50 years. The salary structure that creates an incentive to defer the promotion of prospects plays a role, but that too has been around for a while. 

So what's changed recently? I think the following are among the key factors:

1. Change in the perspective of owners and GMs. I can't draw a precise line or marshal the evidence right now, but traditionally many team owners were men (and Marge Schott) who had inherited great wealth, their teams or both. To be delicate, let's say they had more going for them ethically than intellectually. But they loved baseball, and they viewed themselves as sportsmen, gentlemen and guardians of The Great Game. They were thrilled to be in baseball's inner circle, and were satisfied with making a little money and putting a quality team on the field, even those who didn't win many or any championships. 

Today, many more owners are self-made guys who want badly to win, just as they have (in their eyes and maybe, I don't know, in reality) like they've won in their other business pursuit, and secondarily would like to make some money (or certainly not lose any). They don't appear to give a damn whether they finish third or fifth in a division, or whether reducing the payroll puts a lousy product on the field, or whether having multiple teams in extreme rebuilding mode looks bad for baseball or mucks up a pennant race.

GMs take their cue from the  owners who hire them, but here too there's been significant evolution in the  nature of the guys sitting in those chairs. There's little or no room for the baseball lifers like Syd Thrift or born-and-bred types like Andy MacPhail. Most GMs are smart, relatively young guys who are eager to show off their ability to bring a team that's down into contention and are more than willing to follow an owner's direction about how to do that.

2. It's my conviction that increasingly MLB teams have become stratified -- that is, they fall into pretty distinct layers -- based on differences in the amounts of revenues they can generate. To put it briefly, the teams that compete in divisions against the NYYs, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Cubs and Cardinals, plus the Marlins, are at such an extreme competitive disadvantage from revenue differences that they can't hope to compete for a division title every year. They face the choice of probably muddling along in the middle of the pack, or lower, hoping to eke out an occasional wild card spot or once-in-a-blue-moon division title, or strategically building a competitive team by gathering talent that will ripen together for a window of several years, with the consequence that the talent level in other years probably will not enable them to be compete. And  once you've become convinced of that choice, and admit that you've elected the second option, why not go all the way with an extreme rebuild -- and put a few million extra bucks in your pocket in the process?

There is nothing new about the large revenue differences more fully aware -- though the gaps have increased in most cases -- but I believe today's owners (and GMs or equivalents) are more aware of their significance and are more prepared to recognize them in formulating their strategies. 

3. As sort of a combination of these points, there has been a distinct upgrade in the quality of off-field management across MLB. The days when some of the highest-revenue teams like the NYYs and Cubs bore the burden of being run by meddling owners or incompetent (though often beloved by fans and sportswriters) GMs are largely over, at least once you get outside of Citi Field, and there's no reason to expect they will return. It is increasingly difficult, or maybe impossible, for lower-revenue teams to take advantage of superior or more forward-looking techniques to compensate for the advantages conferred by much higher revenues. From the limited information I've seen, it appears that the highest-revenue teams now are among the most forward-looking -- and biggest-spending -- in developing and applying information that might improve on-field performance.

When you put these factors together, the Astros-style extreme rebuild should be very appealing to three classes of teams: those that face the significant revenue disadvantages described above, those that are short of disposable cash for a while because of big mistakes in signing unproductive free agents, and those that are coming off rebuilds/efforts to concentrate talent that have run their course. (The Orioles check all three boxes.) An extreme rebuild may look like, and may be, the only way for such teams to get back into contention without waiting a decade or more. It leads to a low major league payroll for at least a few years, maybe more. And if it results in some rotten baseball at the major league level, creates an underclass of really bad teams, and inflates the records of the good teams that play multiple rebuilders 19 times a year each, let the Commissioner worry about that. That's what he's paid for.

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1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m actually starting to think that the Tigers are worst than the Os

You can be the not worst team and finish with the worst record.

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12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m actually starting to think that the Tigers are worst than the Os

They’ve gone 11-43 over their last 54 games.   We’ve gone 15-39 in our last 44.    The teams are tied in the all-important win column (opposite of the pennant race where it’s the all-important loss column).     So yes, it’s quite possible they will pass us for worst record.  

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

They’ve gone 11-43 over their last 54 games.   We’ve gone 15-39 in our last 44.    The teams are tied in the all-important win column (opposite of the pennant race where it’s the all-important loss column).     So yes, it’s quite possible they will pass us for worst record.  

Plus we’re 5-5 in our last 10 and they are 1-9. 

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On 7/18/2019 at 8:46 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

 

As of this morning the Orioles are 29-66, so they need to go at least 10-57 (.175) the rest of the way to avoid being the worst team since 1900. They need at least 12-55 (.179) to pass the 1962 Mets.

 

 

 

On 7/18/2019 at 4:44 PM, SteveA said:

 

And we are 7-8 in our last 15 games.

 

o

 

8-8 over our last 16 games, now.

 

o

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14 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

8-8 over our last 16 games, now.

 

o

Seems like the addition of Sisco and Santander along with the removing Straily and Hess and getting some replacement level starters in their place has improved the team.  

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This is the fan I've become

        Sigh of relief when they get their first hit. 

        Sigh of relief when they score their first run. 

        Sigh of relief when they have a nine run lead and get the last out.

        Worried because the win will hurt our chances of being the worst team.

 

 

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The all important Tiger series in the middle of September.A possible chance of also catching the Royals or Blue Jays.Slight chance of catching the Mariners and Marlins.My better record then last year bet looking good with 66 games to go.At 30 now.Only need 18 more.

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