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Orioles trade Cashner to Red Sox

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1 minute ago, Cy Bundy said:

We should leak the names of the other guys offered, let those guys know Boston wanted us to take them... create some Red Sox drama in the Latin American community. 

 

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Just now, Cy Bundy said:

Blaze & Kumar will make for a great 30 for 30 in 30 years. Just need to tank for another season & a half.

Are they calling Harold blaze because he smokes a lot?

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7 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Lou/John don't look at it as spending almost $5M to trade for 2 players that the Red Sox bought for under $400K combined.   Look at it as saving about $11.4M through next year.

What should be the $$$ threshold before asking for Lou/John to approve?

I don’t think either way you mention makes any logical sense.

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Just now, Cy Bundy said:

Depends on how serious we are about international talent. If we aren’t willing to tell them that our rivals didn’t want them, how can they trust us. 

 

If I'm a GM with another team and the O's pull a trick like that on the Sox,  I'm only trading with them as a last resort.

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1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

I don’t think either way you mention makes any logical sense.

I think he's convinced Cashner's option would vest.

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16 minutes ago, Obando said:

Plenty of international players that got paid on the cheap have gone on to have successful major league careers.  A current example is Ronald Acuna Jr., who signed for $100k with the Braves.  I think Luis Severino signed with the Yankees for like $70k.  Just because these guys weren’t highly thought of at the time they signed doesn’t mean they can’t develop into very good players, as they have.  We see plenty of players get big bonuses and bust (both domestic & international).  That’s why none of us can say for sure that this was a bad trade, because we can’t judge these guys based on what dollar amount they signed for.  I trust Mike Elias & Koby Perez on this one.

Do you think the White Sox regret trading Fernando Tatis Jr. in the deal for James Shields back in 2016?  At the time, Tatis Jr. wasn’t considered a stud prospect and was far away from the big leagues (and he was only 17), which is why the White Sox were willing to give him up and take on a past-his-prime Shields and his big salary.  But look what happened once Tatis got to San Diego?  He developed into a stud, and now the White Sox look pretty bad for making that trade, especially considering they were a fringe contender that year to begin with and Shields wasn’t going to suddenly turn back into the ace he was 3-4 years before that.  Cashner is probably at the same level now that Shields was at that time (maybe even slightly better), only with a much more manageable salary and a pending FA versus a long term albatross of a contract that Shields had.

On the flip side, the Padres got what everyone considered a steal when they traded Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza, who was a top 20 MLB prospect at the time of his trade.  Four years later and too many injuries to count, he has yet to pitch in AA ball and has been surpassed by countless other pitchers on their roster this year.  

It just goes to prove that prospects are a crap shoot.  

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Not that it's my money, but I thought they would lose a bit more.  Sox at luxury tax level so maybe I shouldn't be  surprised they didn't eat that much.

I know nothing of the return guys.  Hopefully it makes the Dominican teams better and at least 1 contributes at some point.

Would always like to see more established, but I can understand why Cashner doesn't necessarily bring that.  Lotto tickets beats more 1B or utility infielders.

Considering how many college draftees are filling GCL and Aberdeen, combined with Delmarva looking to have some decent guys it's nice to fill other leagues.  I am confident that any frederick,Bowie, Norfolk level player would not have much upside in this type deal.

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7 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

So other mlb teams won’t trade with us because we care about the Latin American community. Another win for Elias. 

I believe that Can of Corn was stating that IF you throw another GM under a bus you probably should crawl under with him because of the lost respect from the remaining 28 GM's

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15 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

On the flip side, the Padres got what everyone considered a steal when they traded Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza, who was a top 20 MLB prospect at the time of his trade.  Four years later and too many injuries to count, he has yet to pitch in AA ball and has been surpassed by countless other pitchers on their roster this year.  

It just goes to prove that prospects are a crap shoot.  

Anyone can get injured.  Espinoza had young Pedro Martinez stuff, but unfortunately has had a Hunter Harvey career so far.


Cashner was bad last year with a 5.29 ERA and 1.58 WHIP (so no trade value).  Elias did a good job selling high and getting two high upside lottery tickets.  I trust that his staff knows these kids very well and think they have very high upside.

Edited by Go_Os

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3 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

I believe that Can of Corn was stating that IF you throw another GM under a bus you probably should crawl under with him because of the lost respect from the remaining 28 GM's

Trust more than respect but yea, pretty close.

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2 hours ago, mdoriolefan said:

I guess Givens will go for a bag of balls if this is what we get for Cashner.

 

2 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

As we have usually gotten in the last few years....NADA.

 

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Well this makes it a little bit more of a head scratcher. They gave them out for nothing and they’re paying most of his salary

 

21 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

Who is upset & who has called either prospect worthless? Do you always enter threads straws blazin?

Bag of Balls, Nada, and Nothing are pretty synonymous with worthless.  Or am I missing something? Enlighten me.

Edited by awannabegeek
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1 minute ago, Go_Os said:

Anyone can get injured.  Espinoza had young Pedro Martinez stuff, but unfortunately has had Hunter Harvey career so far.


Cashner was bad last year with a 5.29 ERA and 1.58 WHIP (so no trade value).  Elias did a good job selling high and getting two high upside lottery tickets.  I trust that his staff knows these kids very well and think they have very high upside.

Exactly my point.  It's a crap shoot.  David Andrews released an app a few years ago to help parents track how much their kids pitched at the high school level because what he found out is that, by the time these kids are drafted out of HS or go to college, they have so many miles on their arm that they are a ticking time bomb for elbow and shoulder injuries.  He had parents coming to him and other colleagues asking for "preventative" Tommy John surgery.  Who knows how much Espinoza pitched as a kid/teenager before coming to the Boston/San Diego organizations, and if that ruined him or not.  

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20 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

I don’t think either way you mention makes any logical sense.

IF Cashner gets 80 more IP, his 2020 option vested for $10M.   He's averaging 5.2IP per start with 14-15 starts left.  My mistake on the numbers; had he stayed in Baltimore this season, the Orioles would pay about $13.7M through 2020. 

The Orioles still have to pay $4.7M on his deal after this trade.

The Angelos' see the $4.7M and need to see they're saving around $9M overall.

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Bad trade. I see people going the "well Cashner wasn't that good anyway" route on here but they're trying to convince themselves more than anything. Cashner was a decent pitcher who had a bad year last year but appears to have righted things this year. The trade would have been fine as a salary dump, but if the O's really are paying most of his salary, then the trade makes no sense at all.

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6 minutes ago, LocoChris said:

Bad trade. I see people going the "well Cashner wasn't that good anyway" route on here but they're trying to convince themselves more than anything. Cashner was a decent pitcher who had a bad year last year but appears to have righted things this year. The trade would have been fine as a salary dump, but if the O's really are paying most of his salary, then the trade makes no sense at all.

From my understanding, they are essentially paying the signing bonus money and approximately half of the salary remaining, items that they were already responsible for, to avoid the $9 million option for next year.  So about $4.7 million to save $9 million as someone said earlier.  

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