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mikezpen

I don't want to hear this "chemistry" crap

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Chemistry is important.

It isn't more important then doing the right thing and setting yourself up for the future. Chemistry on a 75 win team only means so much, especially when you continue to play old players who won't be part of a contending team.

You're correct. But that doesn't describe this team at the moment. For me the debate is whether pulling out a .500 season with players that have chemistry is better, and is at the expense of, player younger guys with little or no MLB experience to try and prepare them for the future and by doing that guaranteeing another losing season by a much wider margin.

If we had old vets going 0-5 every night and we're losing games, then I'd say lets make a change. But as long as the Vets are producing and the victories keep us hovering around a winning season, I'm sticking with them. I don't want BRob, Nick, etc mired in the flavor of losing (again) the next month and half of the season. I want the season to end on a positive note for these guys. Change the environment of losing around here....

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Chemistry is important.

It isn't more important then doing the right thing and setting yourself up for the future. Chemistry on a 75 win team only means so much, especially when you continue to play old players who won't be part of a contending team.

I agree with your point on chemistry other than it is good for young players to come into the right enviroment, but other than that you are right. I read your many post attacking the use of the older players, but I do not see the alternatives right now. I know you want Montanez in, and so do I but I do not want him playing CF if he is bad at it. Hopefully he will be out there today and I hope he does well and then I think you will see less Payton. If not CF then it has to be left or DH. In order to do that, either Mora, or Millar has to sit. Mora is playing great right now, much to his detractors dismay and Millar is well, Millar....painful to watch but effective on defense and adequate on offense. I get aggravated when I see, too old to be on a contending Orioles team. Flash forward a year, by some miracle the Orioles sign Tex and some pitcher who helps stabalize the rotation (i.e. Burnett) and please a SS, and Roberts, Nick, Markakis, Tex, Huff and yes the next Johhny Bench, Mr. Wieters form a very formidable top 6 isn't Mora capable of playing a Scott Brosius role in a team that can contend?? To discard players when they are performing well is not something any team does.

I agree on Payton, but if Montaanez is not at least adequate in CF what choice do we have?? Nick could do the job, and could be moved but he gives a gold glove right fielder, should we mess with that?? Maybe what they should have down was bring Redman up but that would have agravated people also. I do not buy that by bringing up Montanez they ruin his triple crown chances. he has been a career minor leaguer. Those types sell there soul for a few months in the show.

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You're correct. But that doesn't describe this team at the moment. For me the debate is whether pulling out a .500 season with players that have chemistry is better, and is at the expense of, player younger guys with little or no MLB experience to try and prepare them for the future and by doing that guaranteeing another losing season by a much wider margin.

If we had old vets going 0-5 every night and we're losing games, then I'd say lets make a change. But as long as the Vets are producing and the victories keep us hovering around a winning season, I'm sticking with them. I don't want BRob, Nick, etc mired in the flavor of losing (again) the next month and half of the season. I want the season to end on a positive note for these guys. Change the environment of losing around here....

Good post. There is value to stopping the bleeding of 10 years of losing seasons. And it goes deeper than BRob, Nick etc. enduring losing seasons. AN 82-80 team looks better to a free agent that a 71 and 91 team tht has lost for 11 straight years does. You are right, Mora, Millar and even Payton are producing. Mora may well knock in 100 runs and has been very good since the AS break. Payton as much as I wish Jones had stayed healthy, play a decent to above average CF and always hustles. I have been shocked at how quick he still is. I have to admit, I hit the rewind button on his triple in Anaheim the other day and his dash from first to home on Friday night.

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I agree with your point on chemistry other than it is good for young players to come into the right enviroment, but other than that you are right. I read your many post attacking the use of the older players, but I do not see the alternatives right now. I know you want Montanez in, and so do I but I do not want him playing CF if he is bad at it. Hopefully he will be out there today and I hope he does well and then I think you will see less Payton. If not CF then it has to be left or DH. In order to do that, either Mora, or Millar has to sit. Mora is playing great right now, much to his detractors dismay and Millar is well, Millar....painful to watch but effective on defense and adequate on offense. I get aggravated when I see, too old to be on a contending Orioles team. Flash forward a year, by some miracle the Orioles sign Tex and some pitcher who helps stabalize the rotation (i.e. Burnett) and please a SS, and Roberts, Nick, Markakis, Tex, Huff and yes the next Johhny Bench, Mr. Wieters form a very formidable top 6 isn't Mora capable of playing a Scott Brosius role in a team that can contend?? To discard players when they are performing well is not something any team does.

I agree on Payton, but if Montaanez is not at least adequate in CF what choice do we have?? Nick could do the job, and could be moved but he gives a gold glove right fielder, should we mess with that?? Maybe what they should have down was bring Redman up but that would have agravated people also. I do not buy that by bringing up Montanez they ruin his triple crown chances. he has been a career minor leaguer. Those types sell there soul for a few months in the show.

Reimold and Wieters should be up.

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Reimold and Wieters should be up.

Agree on Reimold and we have already argued the Wieters point. One thing, DT does not decide who comes up, so he can not be held accountable for that. I think the OP argument was that the lineups were being made up with chemistry in mind. I have seen Reimold more than a few times over the last few years and I do not think he is a centerfielder. He does not get a great break on the ball. Just my oppinion.

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Reimold and Wieters should be up.

I presume we haven't been able to unload Payton or we'd be seeing something different. I don't expect them to just cut him and pay his salary. Weiters is a different argument. If the primary stress of this board is about Reimold and Weiters, then we're not really that far apart and I can't understand the tone of some here.

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I find it amazing that people who have never been on a professional ball club are convinced that chemistry means nothing and then dismiss people who would know better than they. We have people here that are IN THE CLUBHOUSE on a nightly basis, they say different

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Remember all the quotes about the team's chemistry in the first half of just about every season in the last ten years?

Maybe it's easier to have good "chemistry" when the team is playing better. Doesn't adversity test chemistry?

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I find it amazing that people who have never been on a professional ball club are convinced that chemistry means nothing and then dismiss people who would know better than they. We have people here that are IN THE CLUBHOUSE on a nightly basis, they say different

No offense to those people but who cares?

Again, when Trax was dealt LAST YEAR, he talked about what a fun clubhouse we had and how good the chemistry is.

Every year, people act as if we didn't have good chemistry and many times, we have heard the players say differently.

At the end of the day, winning is what matters and, in our case, doing the best thing for the future of the club is what matters.

If players like Millar can't see the big picture and get all bent out of shape because some kid is playing more than them, how good is it to have them in the clubhouse anyway?

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I presume we haven't been able to unload Payton or we'd be seeing something different. I don't expect them to just cut him and pay his salary. Weiters is a different argument. If the primary stress of this board is about Reimold and Weiters, then we're not really that far apart and I can't understand the tone of some here.

This board isn't usually that far apart in these things...most people just don't see that though.

They intrepret play the kids as trade everyone over 30. It is probably the most ridiculous part of this message board...the way people take what others say to that next level doesn't even exist.

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Reimold and Wieters should be up.

Why to let them sit on the bench??? Montanez sits so Payton can play everyday. You think he will sit Hernandez to play Wieters??? :rofl:

Trembley's is establishing himself as a veterans manager (with Haste). Riemold couldn't possibly be promted... Where would he play 5th OF behind Montanez??? Actually he will play right next to him on the bench:eek:

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Why to let them sit on the bench??? Montanez sits so Payton can play everyday. You think he will sit Hernandez to play Wieters??? :rofl:

Trembley's is establishing himself as a veterans manager (with Haste). Riemold couldn't possibly be promted... Where would he play 5th OF behind Montanez??? Actually he will play right next to him on the bench:eek:

What if this is part of a larger picture that we are missing? What if the is AM/FO establishing a system of player development? What if they sit back and say - this is how we want players to develop and we are not going to change that 14 months into the process just because we have a couple of vets coming off the payroll next year?

What if - while admitting the Payton is no Andruw Jones and Castro is no Ozze Smith - they decide that they want to protect their young pitchers (however you want to define "young") by having a strong defense up the middle? What if they decided that they want Millar to play out the string because he may qualify as a Type B free agent?

What if this team does have chemistry that has been building for 2 years now and they want young players who progress to the majors to experience that same chemistry?

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Why to let them sit on the bench??? Montanez sits so Payton can play everyday. You think he will sit Hernandez to play Wieters??? :rofl:

Trembley's is establishing himself as a veterans manager (with Haste). Riemold couldn't possibly be promted... Where would he play 5th OF behind Montanez??? Actually he will play right next to him on the bench:eek:

Lats see, Monanez plays 15 out of his first 27 innings and so that means DT is a vet's manager. I'm having trouble making that leap of "logic"?:laughlol:

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I don't want to hear it! I'm not interested.

All "chemistry" means is that the veterans on this team are happy because they are playing full-time. The rest won't say anything because they either don't want to get a bad rep or they're people like Bynum who were so lousy they'd kiss the feet of anybody who gives them the 25th spot on a Major League bench.

So, we have a "happy clubhouse"-doesn't mean it's necessarily well-run or that it's being managed in a manner that is conducive to the improvement of this franchise. "Chemistry" simply means that the veterans are real happy-and Trembley lacks either the guts to confront them or the intelligence to take a long view of what's really good for this team.

Chemistry means the players get along and like playing together. I've been on teams that as the season went along you didn't want to be there. You came, played, and went home. There were divisions on the team, groups of players who talked together, but didn't talk to others and vice a versa. It doesn't make for a lot of fun, and makes playing boring.

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If the players believe in it and say it matters, isn't that proof enough? Yes we all know chemistry can't be measured but if the players who are in the clubhouse, on the field, playing 162 games a year and are with each other almost everyday and they say it exists what else would you need to believe in it?

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