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Sessh

Should Rutschman stay at catcher?

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3 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Cal Ripken didn't find his power stroke until his third year of minor league baseball. Orioles have enough problems, I'm not going to get worked up about Henderson struggling in rookie ball. 

At the same time you don't want to see awful walk:strikeout numbers.  I don't think his are awful, BTW.

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2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

If the Orioles were going to draft just a hitter, they would have drafted Vaughn. Part of Rutschman's value is that he's a plus defender at a premium position. If you make that decision, it comes about 6-7 years into his major league career.

I can certainly understand this view, but I am still against putting him there full time IF his hit tool is as good as it's projected to be because it's simply too risky to put all your eggs in that basket. If Severino, for example, is still here and has taken the full-time catcher role and run with it at an above average or elite level, I would not trade him to make room for Rutschman. Only way I have him back there full time is if our catching situation is bleak or inadequate. If he played any other position, I would not view it this way. This is most of the reason I wasn't all that thrilled about taking a catcher first overall because it's just too risky if he's going to be our best player or even a generational player.

I am well aware that I am early in bringing this up, but the thing is most of the time, people are too late in bringing it up and prefer to wait for the catcher to suffer injuries first so he's not the same anymore and then make the move. If Rutschman is just an average hitter in the majors, then all of this is moot since if he did end up being a casualty of his job early, it wouldn't threaten to tank the entire team and wouldn't be impossible to replace. If the guy proves to be an irreplaceable offensive asset, you're just rolling the dice by playing him there every game and I'm not much of a gambler. It's not like he's going to forget how to play catcher if he's only doing it part-time. It would be more about protecting your assets proactively instead of waiting for something to happen that forces your hand because it may be too late by the time that happens.

 

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

 I would imagine that he will play every game  of the season except the second game of a doubleheader, but 10-15 of those games will be at designated hitter. But when you have a catcher who could be a generational player, you don’t move him from the most difficult position on the field to the easiest. He’s a catcher,  And a catcher he shall remain.

Just because a player is drafted at a certain position doesn't mean they must play there all the time no matter what. Machado was drafted as a SS, but turns out he's a MUCH better third baseman. He's played more games at 3B than SS in San Diego and he's a gold glover there. He didn't forget how to play SS, he's just much better at third from what we saw when he was here. He is a SS/3B. Rutschman would be a C/1B who could still be traded (if we choose not to extend him in the future) as a C. He's not going to forget how to do it and I'm not suggesting he never catch again, but maybe once or twice a week instead of every day unless our catching situation is a mess. If defense is all Rutschman is going to bring as a major leaguer, then my point is moot.

Craig Biggio was moved from catcher to 2B after only three seasons because he was too valuable a player to the team offensively to put at such a high risk position, but moving to second base is difficult. If Rutschman is as good as advertised offensively and could go somewhere other than first base, great. Moving players off of catcher to another position to protect them early in a career is not unheard of, but certainly not common. Whether or not it's common shouldn't be an indicator of whether or not it's a good idea, though.

I imagine he will catch every day, though. I only hope it doesn't backfire on us and that if he is a significant offensive asset, the team will change it's approach to him.

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

You think Severino might become an elite catcher?

I kinda lost track of your post after I got to that part.

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

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1 hour ago, Aglets said:

Sorry I was a little loose with my verbiage there.  Thought it was pretty obvious that I was referring to OPS.  I'll tweak it.  Just doing my part to try and get people to use more useful metrics than BA.   :)

I still think Gunnar Henderson makes the HOF before Hernaiz.  

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5 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

I didn't mention the above average part, because while I think it is unlikely, it is, to me, at least possible.  I don't think it's possible that he starts putting up elite numbers.

I think the O's would gladly take average (2 wins).

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6 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I still think Gunnar Henderson makes the HOF before Hernaiz.  

Perfectly plausible.  My take on Gunnar is basically the same as Tony's.  No reason to get worried yet, but I hope to see some improvement by the end of the season.

Just having some fun tweaking Drungo a bit........I don't think we have anywhere near enough data yet to say anything definitive about Hernaiz vs Henderson.

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't mention the above average part, because while I think it is unlikely, it is, to me, at least possible.  I don't think it's possible that he starts putting up elite numbers.

I think the O's would gladly take average (2 wins).

Point taken. I certainly didn't have his offensive ability in mind when I said that, but defensively, he could be in the neighborhood. Even in the best case scenario, I don't see Sevy being a 900+ OPS guy ever. I'd be thrilled if he could just sustain what he's doing this year.

Obviously, a lot can happen over the next year or two. I think if Severino doesn't work out, I think it's even less likely Sisco does which leaves only Rutschman.

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4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Perfectly plausible.  My take on Gunnar is basically the same as Tony's.  No reason to get worried yet, but I hope to see some improvement by the end of the season.

Just having some fun tweaking Drungo a bit........I don't think we have anywhere near enough data yet to say anything definitive about Hernaiz vs Henderson.

Sounds very reasonable.  It'll be interesting to track them and see which pulls ahead next year.  Best case - it turns into something similar to the Braves sitiation when they had shortstops Dansby Swanson and Ozzie Albies shooting up their system.  They waited till they had to make a decision and moved Albies to 2nd.  (Poor Johan Camargo got lost in the shuffle and moved to 3B.)  The rest is history, and hopefully it's repeated here.  

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2 hours ago, Philip said:

 I would imagine that he will play every game  of the season except the second game of a doubleheader, but 10-15 of those games will be at designated hitter. But when you have a catcher who could be a generational player, you don’t move him from the most difficult position on the field to the easiest. He’s a catcher,  And a catcher he shall remain.

As were all of the ones I mentioned.  The second Johnny Bench would work just fine for me. 

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2 hours ago, Sessh said:

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

I see Severino as more of a backup catcher if he can continue to hit a bit. He's actually not an elite defender. Despite throwing as his best attribute, he's not a great framer and his blocking game is adequate at best. I like his game calling a bit and he seems to handle the pitchers pretty well, but I'm not sure he's a long term starter anywhere and he certainly does not appear to be a guy who will be an elite guy. 

I like Severino, but he's not a guy you move Rutschman for. I hear and understand your point about why you would move him off catcher, but I disagree and think you don't draft him 1-1 if you plan to move him anytime soon from an elite position.

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3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

He's OPSing .785.  He's "hitting" .263.  That's nice but not quite the same as hitting .785.    

You can take another turn.  

Btw, Rut should not be switched from catcher - assuming he has no knee issues.  Being a catcher is a major part of him being the #1 pick.  

 

Maybe we need to change the definition of “hitting,” because 95% of the posters here don’t focus primarily on BA.

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4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Chipper Jones had a .592 OPS as an 18-year-old in rookie ball.

He also walked 14 times and struck out just 23 times in 164 PAs. He had only three extra base hits all season which is why I said I'm not concerned over a lack of power and average at this stage. I also said that few (not none) players are dominated in K-BB ratio in GCL and turn into good major league players. 

Regardless, we are a long way from assessing Gunnar as he's still getting his feet wet. He could go on a tear next week and look like the next coming. As I said and stand by my comments, I will only have concerns is if he ends up around 120-140 PAs with an awful K-BB ratio. Concerns are not final assessments.

 

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Just now, Frobby said:

Maybe we need to change the definition of “hitting,” because 95% of the posters here don’t focus primarily on BA.

Nah, as long as everyone is consistent with what's been used for the last 100 years.  

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3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

And Bobby Witt Jr. isn't exactly lighting the world on fire and he's a year older than Henderson.  

After a slow start, Witt has slashed .327/.375/.442/.817 over his last 11 games. 

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