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AceKing

So, Mr. Elias Held Firm.

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1 hour ago, SteveA said:

I'm just surprised we didn't move Villar because I think there's no way we tender him for arbitration in the offseason.   And everyone knows that so dealing him after the season seems unlikely.

It would not have been much. And evidently he has a fan contingent here...That loves his style of play.  A fan favorite as it were. The masses will come out to watch he and Trey and Givens give it their August Sept all. 

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1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

If everyone is so sure the Orioles won’t tender him in the off-season, why pay for him now?

Doesn’t he have a contract?

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10 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Doesn’t he have a contract?

We own his rights.   But he is eligible for arbitration.   If we offer him arbitration, we have to pay him whatever the arbitrator decides.   Which is estimated to be $7 or $8 million based on previous data.

So if we don't want to pay him that, we would "non-tender" him, not offer him arbitration, which would essentially be cutting him.

I think most people think we wouldn't want to pay him that much, nor would we be likely to offer him a longer term contract to entice him to skip arbitration.   So those of us who feel that way figure he will not be an Oriole next year.

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1 hour ago, weams said:

It would not have been much. And evidently he has a fan contingent here...That loves his style of play.  A fan favorite as it were. The masses will come out to watch he and Trey and Givens give it their August Sept all. 

I will be there for some games definitely.

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2 hours ago, weams said:

It would not have been much. And evidently he has a fan contingent here...That loves his style of play.  A fan favorite as it were. The masses will come out to watch he and Trey and Givens give it their August Sept all. 

It's kind of weird - but for the first half of the season, I watched maybe one or two games. Could have cared less. 

They've been playing a little bit better lately and I've watched pretty much every game since the All-Star Break. It's funny that just having a little bit of life was enough to get me to tune back in like they are in the playoff hunt.

 

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1 hour ago, theocean said:

It's kind of weird - but for the first half of the season, I watched maybe one or two games. Could have cared less. 

They've been playing a little bit better lately and I've watched pretty much every game since the All-Star Break. It's funny that just having a little bit of life was enough to get me to tune back in like they are in the playoff hunt.

 

They are not really playing ...bad... baseball right now.

The pitching needs work, and Mr. Davis is still not helping the lineup....

But they are playing some good games against some good teams.

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4 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Plus the Orioles dont like eating salary ,no matter who the GM is.

Didn't they JUST do it in the Cashner trade?

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He held firm but we could have “bought” and took advantage of teams with a 40 man crunch. 

The Yankees traded Joe Harvey for an A ball flier. I’ll admit, the type of flier you like though.  Former $ 1 million int’l signed in a ball.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/rockies-acquire-joe-harvey.html

The Brewers traded away a SP prospect in March Duplan.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/twins-acquire-marcos-diplan-from-brewers.html

The Rays traded away OF Joe McCarthy to SF from TB’s deep system for a guy that isn’t wasn’t even top 30 in SF’s terrible system. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/giants-acquire-joe-mccarthy-from-rays.html

Elias says we will use all of our int’l slots but 98% of the int’l signings happen on J2. See T Shirt. So we’re sitting on int’l slots. IMO we could’ve paid Villar’s salary and gotten some int’l slots for that. Maybe some of those buy us a player from above?

Sometimes you have to acquire assets. Not just sell. 

Overall, it just goes along that Elias isn’t really making too many moves. People are going to be split if that’s good or bad. He didn’t work the waiver wire as much as he could have with the top AL position all offseason. He didn’t acquire SP depth in the offseason.  He only recently made small moves to get Brooks, Wojo, and Eshelman, just to fill slots. Dwight Smith was a just to fill a need for a stop gap OF on OD. We haven’t really promoted guys in the minors. Also, I don’t think Elias got nearly the guys he wanted in terms of coaches, scouts, FO types, because he got on the job so late.

We all have to #trusttheprocess and #analytics, but you can still question...

Edited by sportsfan8703
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13 hours ago, interloper said:

I was kinda curious to see if Straily bounced back after he pitched so well in AAA (same ball) but I'm guessing it made more sense to recoup some of his cost and try out younger guys.

With AAA using the same ball is there a plan to work that down levels? 

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1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

He held firm but we could have “bought” and took advantage of teams with a 40 man crunch. 

The Yankees traded Joe Harvey for an A ball flier. I’ll admit, the type of flier you like though.  Former $ 1 million int’l signed in a ball.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/rockies-acquire-joe-harvey.html

The Brewers traded away a SP prospect in March Duplan.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/twins-acquire-marcos-diplan-from-brewers.html

The Rays traded away OF Joe McCarthy to SF from TB’s deep system for a guy that isn’t wasn’t even top 30 in SF’s terrible system. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/giants-acquire-joe-mccarthy-from-rays.html

Elias says we will use all of our int’l slots but 98% of the int’l signings happen on J2. See T Shirt. So we’re sitting on int’l slots. IMO we could’ve paid Villar’s salary and gotten some int’l slots for that. Maybe some of those buy us a player from above?

Sometimes you have to acquire assets. Not just sell. 

Overall, it just goes along that Elias isn’t really making too many moves. People are going to be split if that’s good or bad. He didn’t work the waiver wire as much as he could have with the top AL position all offseason. He didn’t acquire SP depth in the offseason.  He only recently made small moves to get Brooks, Wojo, and Eshelman, just to fill slots. Dwight Smith was a just to fill a need for a stop gap OF on OD. We haven’t really promoted guys in the minors. Also, I don’t think Elias got nearly the guys he wanted in terms of coaches, scouts, FO types, because he got on the job so late.

We all have to #trusttheprocess and #analytics, but you can still question...

Agree with a lot of this, but I think you explained why the former didn’t happen with the latter observations.

he is probably not ready to be in a ”buy” mode yet.

some moves would have been nice, missed opportunity.

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sounds expensive.

Switching all of the minors would costaround $35,000 per full-season club and $17,500 per short-season club. So moving just full season teams to MLB balls could cost an estimated $4.2 million.Apr 3, 2019

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11 hours ago, AceKing said:

They are not really playing ...bad... baseball right now.

The pitching needs work, and Mr. Davis is still not helping the lineup....

But they are playing some good games against some good teams.

The historic blowouts of the Sox back to back 13-0s, the draft of Adley, the Wojo one hitter and the 16 inning Wilkerson save game ALL got me enthused back up more than I expected.  Let’s go Os! 

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3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

He held firm but we could have “bought” and took advantage of teams with a 40 man crunch. 

The Yankees traded Joe Harvey for an A ball flier. I’ll admit, the type of flier you like though.  Former $ 1 million int’l signed in a ball.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/rockies-acquire-joe-harvey.html

The Brewers traded away a SP prospect in March Duplan.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/twins-acquire-marcos-diplan-from-brewers.html

The Rays traded away OF Joe McCarthy to SF from TB’s deep system for a guy that isn’t wasn’t even top 30 in SF’s terrible system. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/giants-acquire-joe-mccarthy-from-rays.html

Elias says we will use all of our int’l slots but 98% of the int’l signings happen on J2. See T Shirt. So we’re sitting on int’l slots. IMO we could’ve paid Villar’s salary and gotten some int’l slots for that. Maybe some of those buy us a player from above?

Sometimes you have to acquire assets. Not just sell. 

Overall, it just goes along that Elias isn’t really making too many moves. People are going to be split if that’s good or bad. He didn’t work the waiver wire as much as he could have with the top AL position all offseason. He didn’t acquire SP depth in the offseason.  He only recently made small moves to get Brooks, Wojo, and Eshelman, just to fill slots. Dwight Smith was a just to fill a need for a stop gap OF on OD. We haven’t really promoted guys in the minors. Also, I don’t think Elias got nearly the guys he wanted in terms of coaches, scouts, FO types, because he got on the job so late.

We all have to #trusttheprocess and #analytics, but you can still question...

The yankees leadership has been there for 20+ years and they have more money in evaluation than the Rays do payroll.

The Rays leadership has been in place for 10+ years.

The Brewers for 4.

Elias for 6 months.  Organizations take time, systems take time.  From what we have heard, the Orioles were one of few teams in the majors that didn't have a proprietary analytics system.  Accounts from other teams indicate that takes a year alone.  He has a new scouting staff.  Assume they worked up profiles on target prospects, even then Elias foesnt know his staff well enough to trust those instincts.  Notice his Cashner trade was for two recent J2 signees, prospects he would have a lot of familiarity with.

As I said before I am fine with being risk averse.

As to Villar, I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape that he didnt get moved.  There was not much of a middle infield market this year.  Eric Sogard? 

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