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Every time the O's start Blach they are tanking

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5 minutes ago, atomic said:

Straily and Karns were worthless signings and I said so much at the time about Karns.  I mean guys of Bundy's abilities. Can get 5 innings a game at an ERA in the lower 5's.  

To what end? Do you think they contend with that kind of signing? And if not, why do it?

I’m perfectly fine watching whatever young guys Elias deems appropriate to bring up and suffering through a few scrubs along way. In the meantime  maybe I get to watch some guys who’ll be part of the next contending team.

I don’t want FA signed for a team likely to go nowhere. It’s a process, it’ll take time. Spending money in the short term on guys who won’t be part of the long term plan is a poor allocation of funds.

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Just now, Philip said:

That is the definition I was looking for, and we don’t have anybody who fits that definition. Just because somebody’s crappy but has an arm that doesn’t fall off doesn’t mean he fits the bill. 

I actually think a genuine innings eater would be a valuable member of a staff. But we don’t have one.

The definition has changed in that the number of innings required to be an “innings eater” is constantly dropping.    Guys like Reynaldo Lopez and Jakob Junis fit the bill well by today’s standards.    

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14 minutes ago, atomic said:

It means something to the fans. It is the difference between going to games or staying home.

And you speak for all Orioles fans everywhere? Some of us are excited the organization finally has a plan. The execution of that plan will be hard to watch at times. I’m interested in the end result.

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8 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

And you speak for all Orioles fans everywhere? Some of us are excited the organization finally has a plan. The execution of that plan will be hard to watch at times. I’m interested in the end result.

I'm the same. 

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I don’t think there’s a better way to resolve 25 years of neglect and malpractice than to clean house, strip the sheets, and start over. It’s been a long time coming.

Maybe I haven’t fully explained why I don’t think this is a tank job: the Orioles appear to have a long term plan to win a championship. I look at the Marlins and see nothing of the sort. I mentioned malpractice before— trading Zac Gallen was evidence enough (to me) that the Marlins are just wandering around with their hands in their pockets or even something more sinister.

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21 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

To what end? Do you think they contend with that kind of signing? And if not, why do it?

I’m perfectly fine watching whatever young guys Elias deems appropriate to bring up and suffering through a few scrubs along way. In the meantime  maybe I get to watch some guys who’ll be part of the next contending team.

I don’t want FA signed for a team likely to go nowhere. It’s a process, it’ll take time. Spending money in the short term on guys who won’t be part of the long term plan is a poor allocation of funds.

Somebody had to pitch this year.  Karns, then Straily were really trying to solve the problem created when Cobb could not pitch.  Our opening day rotation was Bundy, Cashner, Mike Wright,  and David Hess....with blank in 5 slot because Cobb had the groin thing right before opening day.  They signed Karns but he couldn’t get beyond anything before getting hurt and Strailey was just a Hail Mary.  But these didn’t really cost squat and, as I said, nobody was ready those opening weeks.   Means was in the pen.  So we have now lost Wright, Straily, Karns, Means has moved in and David Hess has moved out and Cashner moved out and Cobb still is nada and Wojo and Brooks and Blach  are just filling shirts till the season ends.  

I think the only actual starters we have are Means....and Bundy as a 5 starter that can give innings.  Everybody else in the rotation could go and we would be no worse than we are now.  Will Cobb give us anything next year?  Who knows.  But we may still have to blow through some pitching cast off nobodies again in 2020 until we have replacements ready below. 

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16 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

And you speak for all Orioles fans everywhere? Some of us are excited the organization finally has a plan. The execution of that plan will be hard to watch at times. I’m interested in the end result.

If you can win 50 games without interrupting “the plan” or 70 games without interrupting “the plan” it’s a no brainer that 70 games is better. Atomic and I, and many another fan, Care about winning as many games as possible. We agree that we shouldn’t interfere with “the plan” but what does interfering with the plan mean?

Interfering with the plan means spending dumb money on dumb free agents, or trading Davies for Parra, or Tarpley/Brault for Snider. To mention a few examples, Pedro Alvarez was a dumb free-agent signing. So was Mark Trumbo, Because neither was necessary, and the money spent on either could’ve been spent better elsewhere. Cashner was on the bubble. A prudent GM would not have signed him, but that signing was defensible, although it would not be now, I don’t think.

On the other hand, Straily and Karns were very good signings, Because they were extremely low cost. They both failed, but they were both definitely good decisions.

Mike will investigate more signings like Straily and Karns, And I am positive he’s going to avoid any signings like Trumbo, Which was an expensive signing of a limited player who was unnecessary, and any dumb trades.

Elias isn’t going to interfere with his plan, but it is ridiculous to think that he would deliberately avoid winning games for the sake of a draft pick.

And he can do that easily and inexpensively without interfering with “the plan” and we should hope that he does, because 70 wins is better than 50.

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13 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think there’s a better way to resolve 25 years of neglect and malpractice than to clean house, strip the sheets, and start over. It’s been a long time coming.

Maybe I haven’t fully explained why I don’t think this is a tank job: the Orioles appear to have a long term plan to win a championship. I look at the Marlins and see nothing of the sort. I mentioned malpractice before— trading Zac Gallen was evidence enough (to me) that the Marlins are just wandering around with their hands in their pockets or even something more sinister.

You make a very good point. I don’t think anybody doubts there’s a REAL “five year plan” instead of all the other five years plans that have lasted for generations.

but the debate-at least that to which I was responding- was about whether or not the team would deliberately lose games for the sake of a draft pick on the grounds that 70 wins don’t matter, and I take fervent issue with that.

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1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

And you speak for all Orioles fans everywhere? Some of us are excited the organization finally has a plan. The execution of that plan will be hard to watch at times. I’m interested in the end result.

That is why the worst attendance since the 70s.  I speak as a former season ticket holder.

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40 minutes ago, Philip said:

You make a very good point. I don’t think anybody doubts there’s a REAL “five year plan” instead of all the other five years plans that have lasted for generations.

but the debate-at least that to which I was responding- was about whether or not the team would deliberately lose games for the sake of a draft pick on the grounds that 70 wins don’t matter, and I take fervent issue with that.

Yeah I mean signing guys to one year contracts. Not spending crazy money.  The Dodgers drafted stars toward the end of the first round.  Two picks at the top of the draft should be enough. 

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1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think there’s a better way to resolve 25 years of neglect and malpractice than to clean house, strip the sheets, and start over. It’s been a long time coming.

Maybe I haven’t fully explained why I don’t think this is a tank job: the Orioles appear to have a long term plan to win a championship. I look at the Marlins and see nothing of the sort. I mentioned malpractice before— trading Zac Gallen was evidence enough (to me) that the Marlins are just wandering around with their hands in their pockets or even something more sinister.

There weren't 25 years of neglect.  We had 5 straight seasons of success and Elias admits that former regime left him with a lot of good prospects.  

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2 hours ago, Philip said:

Elias isn’t going to interfere with his plan, but it is ridiculous to think that he would deliberately avoid winning games for the sake of a draft pick.

I never claimed he was.

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3 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

I never claimed he was.

I didn’t say you did, but I think you were one of the people who said that it didn’t matter whether we won 50 games or 70. There were several people involved in the conversation so I don’t know exactly what you said, but it absolutely does matter whether we win 50 games or 70, so long as it doesn’t interfere with “the plan”

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2 hours ago, atomic said:

There weren't 25 years of neglect.  We had 5 straight seasons of success and Elias admits that former regime left him with a lot of good prospects.  

I'd argue for five years they won in spite of ownership neglecting international signings, player development, and free agency that wasn't bargain bin shopping or of the last man standing variety.  Which I guess is credit to Buck and Dan but there's a reason Elias is cleaning house.  The team was far behind where it needed to be to compete in this era of baseball. 

 

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Considering this is the first year of a lengthy rebuild that is directly following a massive collapse, 50 wins is absolutely better than 70 wins. The goal is to get the highest draft pick possible. This is about sacrificing the present for the future for several consecutive years in order to build a successful team built upon a model of sustainability that can be used to consistently produce teams that are playoff contenders year after year.

For a team in the position we are in now trying to accomplish the things we're trying to accomplish right now, 70 wins is a wrench thrown into the plans. A top 3 pick is equivalent to winning the World Series in 2019 and probably next year as well at least. If you really need to know why going for 70 wins and filling in holes with free agents is a bad idea, review the 1998-2011 Orioles and remind yourself what happens when a team doesn't fully commit to either a rebuild or trying to contend. What we are doing now is fully committing to not only a team rebuild, but an organization rebuild from the ground up. FULLY committing. That is #1. Winning 70 games is not only not a step towards our goal, but is also a step away from it back to the attitude of that stretch of 14 golden years in a row. Winning games right now is not a priority. This is how a rebuild works. High draft picks are the goal, not 70 wins.

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