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The Davis/Elias meeting

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10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I haven’t analyzed it, but I doubt we couldn’t get down to 38 players for the Rule 5 draft without losing a player to another team.    I can only recall one Orioles prospect who has been selected in the Rule 5 draft in the last 10 years — Steve Johnson, and he was returned to us by the Giants before spring training was over.     Our farm system is much improved but I doubt our 39th and 40th best players will get poached.   

Shame we cant leave Davis unprotected. :)

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32 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I haven’t analyzed it, but I doubt we couldn’t get down to 38 players for the Rule 5 draft without losing a player to another team.    I can only recall one Orioles prospect who has been selected in the Rule 5 draft in the last 10 years — Steve Johnson, and he was returned to us by the Giants before spring training was over.     Our farm system is much improved but I doubt our 39th and 40th best players will get poached.   

At this point I don't see the O's protecting Williams or Smith.   So that is 4 opening on the 40 man roster.

Starters (7)

1. Means (27)* -o

2. Bundy (27)*  Starter because they need him.   Could be converted to a reliever after Bowie starters arrive.

3. Cobb (32)*  If healthy

4.

5.

6. Kremer (24)

7. Akin  (25)

8. Sedlock (25)

9. Fenter (24)

Relievers (12)

10. Harvey (25)*- o

11. Givens (30)*-o   -As really hurt his trade value with the blown saves.   He will be available but I doubt Elias gets what he wants for him.

12. Castro (25)*  

13. Bleier (33) -o   Career numbers of very good.  Good bet to bound back next year.

14. Tanner Scott (25)-o Has 1 option left.  Can't give up on an arm like this until he is out of option and still has no command.

15. Phillips (25) -o

16. Tate  (26)* -o Has 2 options left.  Has 1.67 ERA as reliever at Bowie.

17. Kline  (28) -o  Has 2 option left.  Can’t give up on the arm.

18. Hess (26) -o   Need to be tried as  reliever.  Has a 3.00 ERA 24 IP, 26K, 1.08 WHIP as a reliever at AAA.  Has one option left.

19. Carroll - (27)-o Depending on health.  If he was healthy he is just the kind of pitcher the O's would be trying to add. Has 1 option left.  Has a 2.73 ERA in the minors with over a strikeout per inning.

20. Ortiz (24)  Too young to give up on.  Has a strong arm.

21. Alvarado (25)-o  2.66 ERA at AA.

Catchers (2)

22. Severino (26)*

23. Sisco (24)*-o

Infielders/DH (8)

24. Mancini  (28)*-o

25. Villar  (29)* - Very Available. But Elias will put a high price on him.

26. Nunez (26)*

27. Alberto (27)*

28. Martin (25)*-o   May start at AAA.

29.  Ruiz  (26)*-o  Good last 6 weeks raised his stock.

30. Wilkerson (28)*-o  Can high righties.   Could be platoon 2B or a UIF.

31. Davis (34)*  With 3 years left on that contract and the team not expected to win.  He stays.  26th man help his hold a spot.

Outfielders (9)

32. Mountcastle (23)-o Probably the starting LFer.

33. Santander (25)*-o  In RF.

34.  Hays (24) -o   CF

35. Stewart (26)*-o Extra OF

36. Williams (28)   Sept will tell if he stays.  Likely gone

37. Smith  (27) -o  Sept will tell if he stays. Likely gone

38. Diaz (23) -o AAA

39. McKenna (23)-o  AA

40.  Mullins (25)-o AAA

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4 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Translation is, at least my own opinion.

Ownership has told Elias, he can not jettison that fat contract.

So if he is stuck with it, why not try and see what he can get done in the off-season to get Davis back to somewhat respectability.

Could he be a coach instead of a player?

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2 hours ago, wildcard said:

At this point I don't see the O's protecting Williams or Smith.   So that is 4 opening on the 40 man roster.

Starters (7)

1. Means (27)* -o

2. Bundy (27)*  Starter because they need him.   Could be converted to a reliever after Bowie starters arrive.

3. Cobb (32)*  If healthy

4.

5.

6. Kremer (24)

7. Akin  (25)

8. Sedlock (25)

9. Fenter (24)

Relievers (12)

10. Harvey (25)*- o

11. Givens (30)*-o   -As really hurt his trade value with the blown saves.   He will be available but I doubt Elias gets what he wants for him.

12. Castro (25)*  

13. Bleier (33) -o   Career numbers of very good.  Good bet to bound back next year.

14. Tanner Scott (25)-o Has 1 option left.  Can't give up on an arm like this until he is out of option and still has no command.

15. Phillips (25) -o

16. Tate  (26)* -o Has 2 options left.  Has 1.67 ERA as reliever at Bowie.

17. Kline  (28) -o  Has 2 option left.  Can’t give up on the arm.

18. Hess (26) -o   Need to be tried as  reliever.  Has a 3.00 ERA 24 IP, 26K, 1.08 WHIP as a reliever at AAA.  Has one option left.

19. Carroll - (27)-o Depending on health.  If he was healthy he is just the kind of pitcher the O's would be trying to add. Has 1 option left.  Has a 2.73 ERA in the minors with over a strikeout per inning.

20. Ortiz (24)  Too young to give up on.  Has a strong arm.

21. Alvarado (25)-o  2.66 ERA at AA.

Catchers (2)

22. Severino (26)*

23. Sisco (24)*-o

Infielders/DH (8)

24. Mancini  (28)*-o

25. Villar  (29)* - Very Available. But Elias will put a high price on him.

26. Nunez (26)*

27. Alberto (27)*

28. Martin (25)*-o   May start at AAA.

29.  Ruiz  (26)*-o  Good last 6 weeks raised his stock.

30. Wilkerson (28)*-o  Can high righties.   Could be platoon 2B or a UIF.

31. Davis (34)*  With 3 years left on that contract and the team not expected to win.  He stays.  26th man help his hold a spot.

Outfielders (9)

32. Mountcastle (23)-o Probably the starting LFer.

33. Santander (25)*-o  In RF.

34.  Hays (24) -o   CF

35. Stewart (26)*-o Extra OF

36. Williams (28)   Sept will tell if he stays.  Likely gone

37. Smith  (27) -o  Sept will tell if he stays. Likely gone

38. Diaz (23) -o AAA

39. McKenna (23)-o  AA

40.  Mullins (25)-o AAA

I don't see a point to protecting Wilkerson or Ruiz either.  

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3 hours ago, wildcard said:

At this point I don't see the O's protecting Williams or Smith.   So that is 4 opening on the 40 man roster.

Starters (7)

1. Means (27)* -o

2. Bundy (27)*  Starter because they need him.   Could be converted to a reliever after Bowie starters arrive.

3. Cobb (32)*  If healthy

4.

5.

6. Kremer (24)

7. Akin  (25)

8. Sedlock (25)

9. Fenter (24)

Relievers (12)

10. Harvey (25)*- o

11. Givens (30)*-o   -As really hurt his trade value with the blown saves.   He will be available but I doubt Elias gets what he wants for him.

12. Castro (25)*  

13. Bleier (33) -o   Career numbers of very good.  Good bet to bound back next year.

14. Tanner Scott (25)-o Has 1 option left.  Can't give up on an arm like this until he is out of option and still has no command.

15. Phillips (25) -o

16. Tate  (26)* -o Has 2 options left.  Has 1.67 ERA as reliever at Bowie.

17. Kline  (28) -o  Has 2 option left.  Can’t give up on the arm.

18. Hess (26) -o   Need to be tried as  reliever.  Has a 3.00 ERA 24 IP, 26K, 1.08 WHIP as a reliever at AAA.  Has one option left.

19. Carroll - (27)-o Depending on health.  If he was healthy he is just the kind of pitcher the O's would be trying to add. Has 1 option left.  Has a 2.73 ERA in the minors with over a strikeout per inning.

20. Ortiz (24)  Too young to give up on.  Has a strong arm.

21. Alvarado (25)-o  2.66 ERA at AA.

Catchers (2)

22. Severino (26)*

23. Sisco (24)*-o

Infielders/DH (8)

24. Mancini  (28)*-o

25. Villar  (29)* - Very Available. But Elias will put a high price on him.

26. Nunez (26)*

27. Alberto (27)*

28. Martin (25)*-o   May start at AAA.

29.  Ruiz  (26)*-o  Good last 6 weeks raised his stock.

30. Wilkerson (28)*-o  Can high righties.   Could be platoon 2B or a UIF.

31. Davis (34)*  With 3 years left on that contract and the team not expected to win.  He stays.  26th man help his hold a spot.

Outfielders (9)

32. Mountcastle (23)-o Probably the starting LFer.

33. Santander (25)*-o  In RF.

34.  Hays (24) -o   CF

35. Stewart (26)*-o Extra OF

36. Williams (28)   Sept will tell if he stays.  Likely gone

37. Smith  (27) -o  Sept will tell if he stays. Likely gone

38. Diaz (23) -o AAA

39. McKenna (23)-o  AA

40.  Mullins (25)-o AAA

 I’m not sure what you mean by “protecting. Unless you are referring to them being protected from being claimed off waivers. Smith would be no loss,  and although I think he has real possibilities, Williams probably duplicates what we already have in adequate quantity. So that’s 38. 

Phillips, Hess, Ortiz( Two teams, both better than ours, have already given up on Ortiz, And with good reason. I haven’t seen any reason to keep him. 35

Mullins has been bad on both sides of the ball, you can’t coach a stronger arm, and he’s already been demoted to Bowie. 34

Davis should go but won’t. Still 34.

Add to the 2 blank spots you have and that’s 8 open spots. Martin might be in danger, if they feel they can add a better SS and want to risk losing him. I keep forgetting how many guys we have to protect for the rule five, but I think the number is five, but that still leaves three open spots on the 40 man.

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12 hours ago, Philip said:

PS I guess Wynns is removed already. No argument there, although I’m a bit sad about it.

Well, he’s on the 40 right now.   

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, he’s on the 40 right now.   

Of course, but i am assuming this list is after the purge. I was subtracting some guys that the list had retained.

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I only have one statement about the Davis situation, if Davis is still not released, then that tells me the sons have no intention of releasing their father's biggest mistake. That tells me that Elias will have to work around this albatross and that tells me more about the sons than it does Elias.

There is no magic bean that is going to turn around Davis. I know Elias is a smart enough baseball man to know this and I know he knows he's done.

 

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The real pressure point will be next spring...if Davis after the offseason is still doing nothing in spring training AND Mountcastle is absolutely tearing the cover off the ball....hard to see him not getting released. 

But if Mountcastle has a mediocre spring making it easy to send him back to Norfolk, then Davis may still be kept I fear. 

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On 9/21/2019 at 4:07 AM, wildcard said:

At this point I don't see the O's protecting Williams or Smith.   So that is 4 opening on the 40 man roster.

Starters (7)

1. Means (27)* -o

2. Bundy (27)*  Starter because they need him.   Could be converted to a reliever after Bowie starters arrive.

3. Cobb (32)*  If healthy

4.

5.

6. Kremer (24)

7. Akin  (25)

8. Sedlock (25)

9. Fenter (24)

Relievers (12)

10. Harvey (25)*- o

11. Givens (30)*-o   -As really hurt his trade value with the blown saves.   He will be available but I doubt Elias gets what he wants for him.

12. Castro (25)*  

13. Bleier (33) -o   Career numbers of very good.  Good bet to bound back next year.

14. Tanner Scott (25)-o Has 1 option left.  Can't give up on an arm like this until he is out of option and still has no command.

15. Phillips (25) -o

16. Tate  (26)* -o Has 2 options left.  Has 1.67 ERA as reliever at Bowie.

17. Kline  (28) -o  Has 2 option left.  Can’t give up on the arm.

18. Hess (26) -o   Need to be tried as  reliever.  Has a 3.00 ERA 24 IP, 26K, 1.08 WHIP as a reliever at AAA.  Has one option left.

19. Carroll - (27)-o Depending on health.  If he was healthy he is just the kind of pitcher the O's would be trying to add. Has 1 option left.  Has a 2.73 ERA in the minors with over a strikeout per inning.

20. Ortiz (24)  Too young to give up on.  Has a strong arm.

21. Alvarado (25)-o  2.66 ERA at AA.

Catchers (2)

22. Severino (26)*

23. Sisco (24)*-o

Infielders/DH (8)

24. Mancini  (28)*-o

25. Villar  (29)* - Very Available. But Elias will put a high price on him.

26. Nunez (26)*

27. Alberto (27)*

28. Martin (25)*-o   May start at AAA.

29.  Ruiz  (26)*-o  Good last 6 weeks raised his stock.

30. Wilkerson (28)*-o  Can high righties.   Could be platoon 2B or a UIF.

31. Davis (34)*  With 3 years left on that contract and the team not expected to win.  He stays.  26th man help his hold a spot.

Outfielders (9)

32. Mountcastle (23)-o Probably the starting LFer.

33. Santander (25)*-o  In RF.

34.  Hays (24) -o   CF

35. Stewart (26)*-o Extra OF

36. Williams (28)   Sept will tell if he stays.  Likely gone

37. Smith  (27) -o  Sept will tell if he stays. Likely gone

38. Diaz (23) -o AAA

39. McKenna (23)-o  AA

40.  Mullins (25)-o AAA

What do the asterisks and bold face signify?

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2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

The real pressure point will be next spring...if Davis after the offseason is still doing nothing in spring training AND Mountcastle is absolutely tearing the cover off the ball....hard to see him not getting released. 

But if Mountcastle has a mediocre spring making it easy to send him back to Norfolk, then Davis may still be kept I fear. 

I don't think Elias makes decisions based on a small sole of spring training at bats.  We sathis spring, Sisco and Phillips had great spring stats and started the season in Norfolk.  He has a plan for Mountcastle and it is what it is.

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On 9/20/2019 at 12:10 PM, DirtyBird said:

Are there any examples of a 34 year old improving bat speed and pitch recognition after 4 years of those qualities declining?

The only thing I can remotely think of is CC Sabathia losing a lot of weight, pitching poorly that year and putting some of it back on and pitching well.  He was in his mid 30s when that happened.

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