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Game 4: Ravens VS Browns

Who wins?  

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  1. 1. Who you got?


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  • Poll closed on 9/29/2019 at 17:00

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6 hours ago, Elbren said:

The problem wasn't letting them go.  The problem is, once again, not doing anything to replace them.  I'm all about "best player available", but this team, come draft time, just does not seem to care about team needs ... and the guys they do draft seem to disappear almost immediately.

- Why is Bozeman the starting LG?  Where is Ben Powers, who they just spent a 4th round pick on?  Not only is he not playing, he's 3rd on the depth chart behind Patrick Mekari, a UDFA.

- Where is Jaylon Ferguson?  They spent a 3rd round on him and he seems to be completely MIA from the DE/OLB rotation.

- Tyus Bowser - 2nd round pick.  You almost never see him and when you do, he's terrible.

- Chris Wormley - 3rd round pick.  He's a starter, but I feel like he's only there because we literally have no one else to fill that role.

- Since the 2016 draft, we already have 7 players from the top 4 rounds who are already gone from the team: Correa (2nd), Kaufusi (3rd), Lewis (4th), Henry (4th), Dixon (4th), Siragusa (4th) and Scott (4th).  While we have starters from the 2016 draft (Stanley, Judon, T. Young), half of that draft class is already gone from the roster.

They tried to address the loss of Weddle by giving Earl Thomas a big contract.  I still think that's a clear upgrade, but I have no problem admitting that Thomas has been almost nonexistent so far.

 

There's over $20 Mil. in dead money between Flacco, Crabtree and Weddle; $24.6 Mil. overall this year in dead money.  Tavon Young is another $3.7 Mil. in cap space sitting on the IR.  James Hurst is one of the top ten Ravens in salary this year and he's not even a starter (Good job, Ozzie).  Jimmy Smith is our #1 cap hit at $15.9 Mil. and he's in the middle of his annual injury stint.

Great post and spot on. This team has been terrible at drafting for awhile now, particularly on the OL and defensive side of the ball and it's catching up.

I completely agree that the problem was the Ravens inability to replace Weddle, Suggs and Mosely.

It's also clear to me that Thomas is not the sharpest tool in the drawer and is confused by Wink Martindale's defense. Then again, everyone seems to be confused so I's still not sure if it's the players or the confusion scheme. But, the fact is Thomas has already stated that he didn't have as big a defensive play book in Seattle which is code for, "I don't get all of this."

I heard Harbaugh make his normal excuses saying things like, "We need to clean up things on assignments." Clean up after the 4th game of the season? What the hell kind of training camp did you run that your players still don't know their assignments in the 4th game of the year? That's falls on the coaching if you ask me. 

This is what happens when you only hire coordinators that are no threat to your coaching position. Harbaugh promoted Martindale because he didn't want to go out and hire an actual star defensive coordinator. 

At the end of the day, we've had weak drafting and weak coaching and that's not going to get it done. Unfortunately, we have weak leadership from the owners box as well since he's been sold that Ozzie/Decosta/Harbaugh are the best despite the fact they've won one playoff game since the Super Bowl. A Super Bowl in a year in which they only went 10-6 and took a miracle to beat the Broncos in the AFC championship game so let's not act like they were dominant that year.

The Ravens need an entire new leadership or they are doomed to mediocrity.

 

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2 hours ago, Aglets said:

One of the most depressing games I've seen in a while.   Well, maybe not.  The playoff game last year was definitely worse.

Interesting quote in the Athletic from Earl Thomas:

Not sure if that comes off as him being a quitter or something.  Probably in the eye of the beholder.   Sigh.  This is gonna be a long season I think where we just barely squeak into the playoffs if at all.  In other words......like most seasons.

Makes me really wonder what the Ravens were doing going out and signing this guy? He's struggling with the defense, won't tackle, and is afraid of trying to run down a RB due to injury. Ridiculous. I'd rather have an old slow Weddle back there.

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19 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

This is what happens when you only hire coordinators that are no threat to your coaching position. Harbaugh promoted Martindale because he didn't want to go out and hire an actual star defensive coordinator. 

At the end of the day, we've had weak drafting and weak coaching and that's not going to get it done. Unfortunately, we have weak leadership from the owners box as well since he's been sold that Ozzie/Decosta/Harbaugh are the best despite the fact they've won one playoff game since the Super Bowl. A Super Bowl in a year in which they only went 10-6 and took a miracle to beat the Broncos in the AFC championship game so let's not act like they were dominant that year.

The Ravens need an entire new leadership or they are doomed to mediocrity.

 

I agree with most of this post, but on the coaching criticism..........on Wink specifically..................didn't we have a top defense in the NFL last year?

I guess you could say it was just the players making him look good, but idk.   Most likely explanation to me is just that the people in charge of personnel for this year just really didn't do enough to replace the guys that left.   If Thomas doesn't understand the defense at this point...........seems to me that's more on him.

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8 minutes ago, Aglets said:

I agree with most of this post, but on the coaching criticism..........on Wink specifically..................didn't we have a top defense in the NFL last year?

I guess you could say it was just the players making him look good, but idk.   Most likely explanation to me is just that the people in charge of personnel for this year just really didn't do enough to replace the guys that left.   If Thomas doesn't understand the defense at this point...........seems to me that's more on him.

Could be, but let's be real here, he's not the only one who has been out of position. On top of it, this team can't tackle for crap. I didn't watch the Ravens last year so I don't know why they were good vs this year, but from what I've seen this year they ar awful regardless of what any numbers say. I've seen more guys open by ten yards or more than any other Ravens defense and we're in week 4. I've seen more guys who can't tackle, including that embarrassment Jefferson. I'm not even sure Thomas wants to play or be good. Think he's just cashing a paycheck. 

Patrick Onwuasor seems to care, but he's just physically not able to play ILB in the NFL effectively. That's on the coaching staff making that awful decision.

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14 minutes ago, Aglets said:

I agree with most of this post, but on the coaching criticism..........on Wink specifically..................didn't we have a top defense in the NFL last year?

I guess you could say it was just the players making him look good, but idk.   Most likely explanation to me is just that the people in charge of personnel for this year just really didn't do enough to replace the guys that left.   If Thomas doesn't understand the defense at this point...........seems to me that's more on him.

Strength of schedule matters.  It's been said a lot, but it's worth repeating: Who did we actually beat last year?  The only winning team we beat was the Chargers and that team beat us like a drum when given a 2nd chance.

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4 hours ago, Elbren said:

BTW, I'd be shocked if Humphrey doesn't get a single game, if not multi-game, suspension after this.  I know there was a lot of heated trash talk and pushing/shoving going on, but the dude literally choked a guy in the middle of the field right in front of a ref.  I'm kind of astounded that the ref didn't do anything about it.

Well, to be fair OBJ hit Humphrey first and should have also been tossed.  

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1 minute ago, Elbren said:

Strength of schedule matters.  It's been said a lot, but it's worth repeating: Who did we actually beat last year?  The only winning team we beat was the Chargers and that team beat us like a drum when given a 2nd chance.

ehhhh

We held the best offense in the NFL to 24 points in regulation, forcing OT.   Chiefs were averaging 35+ a game.

We held the 3rd best offense in the NFL to 24 points, losing by 1.  Saints were averaging 31.5 a game.

We split with the Steelers (6th best offense, scoring 26.8 per game, we held them to 23 and 14) and absolutely smothered the 7th best offense (LAC), holding them to 10.

We had very good defensive showings,  I think your point is relevant if I was bragging about our W/L record, but I was talking about us allowing only 287 points all season.......with only the Bears doing better.

If you want to say we were not the best defense in the AFC in 2018 i'm willing to listen...........but I think it's disingenuous to not recognize that we were a top unit last year.

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4 hours ago, Elbren said:

It's understandable, but I have to admit ... I don't like the sound of it.

Earl Thomas has been insanely disappointing. Looked like we upgraded from flawed Weddle but seems like the opposite. Individually, letting all three of Weddle, Suggs and Mosley go was fine but collectively that left a HUGE leadership and talent void.

Also still think it was a mistake we didn't bring back Chuck Pagano for d coordinator when he voiced an interest. Leave it to Harbaugh to pick the wrong coordinators.

Ravens are like a sinking ship captained by someone who doesn't know how to captain. And you've got 2 holes letting in water, and right when you think you've plugged them 3 more appear.

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Maybe unpopular take, but I don't think Earl Thomas is entirely the problem.  Maybe he's part of the problem, but the corners have to do their job too.  He can't simultaneously cover both halves of the field.  Well, maybe if he was Ed Reed he could, but no one other than Ed Reed is Ed Reed.  Marlon Humphrey did pretty well vs OBJ, chokehold notwithstanding, but they got torched by their TE (Seals-Jones - a LB/SS problem typically) and their 2nd WR (Landry.) I'm not sure I can blame Thomas for shadowing OBJ over Landry.  But the other CB and possibly the SS has to do their job with the 2nd WR.  Furthermore, the defensive line has to get pressure.  The lack of pressure up front was just appalling.  Realistically it's probably impossible to replace Suggs, Mosley, and Weddle, and we only really replaced one of the 3.  Our current LB corps is just outgunned, and the secondary is too banged up to really do much.

I blame personnel for our defensive problems, which by extension is a FO problem.  Offensively I blame the coaching.  The 2 pt tries last week, and the unwillingness to challenge Browns DBs this week were just terrible.  Outside the turnovers, I think the Ravens mostly executed.  They set out to do the completely wrong things.  Also I feel that Jackson was hampered by some drops this week.  Brown in particular had a couple of drops that I remember.

We're obviously not this bad, but this doesn't really look as promising as it did after week 2.  With Pitt 0-3 I thought we had the division in the bag.  Now I'm not so sure.

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11 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Makes me really wonder what the Ravens were doing going out and signing this guy? He's struggling with the defense, won't tackle, and is afraid of trying to run down a RB due to injury. Ridiculous. I'd rather have an old slow Weddle back there.

I had them winning 5 games......No. defense and mediocre passing game if you remove game 1

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9 hours ago, Finisher said:

Earl Thomas has been insanely disappointing. Looked like we upgraded from flawed Weddle but seems like the opposite. Individually, letting all three of Weddle, Suggs and Mosley go was fine but collectively that left a HUGE leadership and talent void.

Also still think it was a mistake we didn't bring back Chuck Pagano for d coordinator when he voiced an interest. Leave it to Harbaugh to pick the wrong coordinators.

Ravens are like a sinking ship captained by someone who doesn't know how to captain. And you've got 2 holes letting in water, and right when you think you've plugged them 3 more appear.

Plus Z Smith...... They were never going to replace Mosley with undrafted players and middling draft choices. Ferguson is not ready to play... Thomas is looking like a huge bust. Onwausor was a nice compliment to CJ ....but not nearly as good as the man. Young and Board...... The Ravens needed to move up to get one of Devin Bush/White.

The defensive departures we're shocking. Once again the Ravens are caught doing the comp pick two-step and thinking they are smarter than everyone else.

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12 hours ago, Aglets said:

We held the best offense in the NFL to 24 points in regulation, forcing OT.   Chiefs were averaging 35+ a game.

To be fair, WE didn't force overtime.  THEY did. lol  They drove down field and scored a TD with less than a minute left, then they had a strip sack against Jackson, forcing the overtime.  Even then, it only went to overtime because their kicker missed an easy FG.  I definitely liked that they kept the Chiefs under 30, but it doesn't change the fact that Mahomes had almost 400 yards while their running game had just under 100.  If Mahomes doesn't slip and fumble the ball in OT, they likely score a TD and we never touch the ball.

I actually think this is a perfect game to showcase why they're not "the best" defense.  This D always seems to fade and disappear when it matters most.  It's the same w/ the Saint's game (where I think they did much better).  They did great for 3 quarters, then the 4th quarter comes around and .. poof!  The Saints offense moves seemingly at-will, put up 17 points and we're done.
 

12 hours ago, Aglets said:

We had very good defensive showings,  I think your point is relevant if I was bragging about our W/L record, but I was talking about us allowing only 287 points all season.......with only the Bears doing better.

If you want to say we were not the best defense in the AFC in 2018 i'm willing to listen...........but I think it's disingenuous to not recognize that we were a top unit last year.

... and I agree with this.  Look, I'm not saying the defense is terrible or anything, but I do believe that they're overrated.  

 

7 hours ago, Hallas said:

We're obviously not this bad, but this doesn't really look as promising as it did after week 2.  With Pitt 0-3 I thought we had the division in the bag.  Now I'm not so sure.

Honestly, I think this will come completely down to the Browns.  If they step up and look like the team that they should be, I think they easily win this division.  If they suddenly remember that they're Cleveland, than I think we take it purely by default.  The Steelers have no QB and the Bengals are still the Bengals. I just don't see either of them doing anything but playing the occasional spoiler for some teams.

 

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Plus Z Smith...... They were never going to replace Mosley with undrafted players and middling draft choices. Ferguson is not ready to play... Thomas is looking like a huge bust. Onwausor was a nice compliment to CJ ....but not nearly as good as the man. Young and Board...... The Ravens needed to move up to get one of Devin Bush/White.

The defensive departures we're shocking. Once again the Ravens are caught doing the comp pick two-step and thinking they are smarter than everyone else.

They needed to do something.  Whether that's move up and take a big name guy, take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round, sign a free agent or trade for someone.  Doesn't matter ... it's a huge hole.  FILL IT.  But they didn't ... and that's just crazy to me.  It's amazing how often this team will see a glaring hole on this team and just say, "Nah, we're good.  We should take another DE/OLB here who won't touch the field."  MLB, LG, C ... Yanda is 35; are they expecting him to play until he's 40?  Pierce is a FA after this year w/ no clear replacement and they can't pay him considering they already gave a huge deal to Brandon Williams.  I love Pernell McPhee, but he's over 30 and only here on a one year deal.  He's not a long term answer.  Jimmy Smith is on the last year of his contract (thank God) and I think there's a chance that Carr is gone next year w/ his dead money number being so low ($1 Mil.) But, the only CB's on roster would be Humphrey and Tavon Young who is more of a slot guy and has now spent just as much time on the IR as he has on the field.

This team loves letting problems build up and then acting shocked when those problems show themselves on the field.

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59 minutes ago, Elbren said:

To be fair, WE didn't force overtime.  THEY did. lol  They drove down field and scored a TD with less than a minute left, then they had a strip sack against Jackson, forcing the overtime.  Even then, it only went to overtime because their kicker missed an easy FG.  I definitely liked that they kept the Chiefs under 30, but it doesn't change the fact that Mahomes had almost 400 yards while their running game had just under 100.  If Mahomes doesn't slip and fumble the ball in OT, they likely score a TD and we never touch the ball.

I actually think this is a perfect game to showcase why they're not "the best" defense.  This D always seems to fade and disappear when it matters most.  It's the same w/ the Saint's game (where I think they did much better).  They did great for 3 quarters, then the 4th quarter comes around and .. poof!  The Saints offense moves seemingly at-will, put up 17 points and we're done.
 

... and I agree with this.  Look, I'm not saying the defense is terrible or anything, but I do believe that they're overrated.  

 

Honestly, I think this will come completely down to the Browns.  If they step up and look like the team that they should be, I think they easily win this division.  If they suddenly remember that they're Cleveland, than I think we take it purely by default.  The Steelers have no QB and the Bengals are still the Bengals. I just don't see either of them doing anything but playing the occasional spoiler for some teams.

 

They needed to do something.  Whether that's move up and take a big name guy, take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round, sign a free agent or trade for someone.  Doesn't matter ... it's a huge hole.  FILL IT.  But they didn't ... and that's just crazy to me.  It's amazing how often this team will see a glaring hole on this team and just say, "Nah, we're good.  We should take another DE/OLB here who won't touch the field."  MLB, LG, C ... Yanda is 35; are they expecting him to play until he's 40?  Pierce is a FA after this year w/ no clear replacement and they can't pay him considering they already gave a huge deal to Brandon Williams.  I love Pernell McPhee, but he's over 30 and only here on a one year deal.  He's not a long term answer.  Jimmy Smith is on the last year of his contract (thank God) and I think there's a chance that Carr is gone next year w/ his dead money number being so low ($1 Mil.) But, the only CB's on roster would be Humphrey and Tavon Young who is more of a slot guy and has now spent just as much time on the IR as he has on the field.

This team loves letting problems build up and then acting shocked when those problems show themselves on the field.

The problems are here. Let's see if DeCosta can solve them. Ozzie was old school and tended to draft for the O and D line. So far it seems like DeCosta leans toward skill positions. I have a good idea which one works.

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On 9/29/2019 at 6:46 PM, atomic said:

Tank next year and get the guy the QB from Clemson.  

Inane.

1)  you couldnt strip the roster enough to ensure that result.  

2)  The current offense still gets the most ypg and most first downs of any team

3)  This assumes he will be healthy and sustain production. 

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On 9/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, Elbren said:

That sounds like a guy who is very weary of injury, considering he's had 3 straight seasons end early because of different injuries.

It's understandable, but I have to admit ... I don't like the sound of it.

He was 10 yards behind him and losing ground when he slowed up.  I am not going to fault him for that.

The fact that he had 8 tackles shows he was doing plenty of work for some inside linebackers who were not covering outside runs at all in this game.

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