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Uli2001

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35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

To be fair, I wonder how many of the men in the crowd knew that they used to be the Expos, could name players from the first team that was there in 2005, went to games at RFK, etc.  I worked with a guy who was like that...insufferable. 

In the 50s, my dad used to go to a lot of Senators games at Griffith Stadium, cheap tickets and cheaper beer.  He took me to ballgames at RFK; there was my hero, Frank Howard, and his hero, Ted Williams was the manager.   After they left, the long commutes to Memorial Stadium were few and far in-between, might as well have been going to the moon.   Orioles games weren't on DC TV, with the few exceptions of Saturday Games of the Week (Curt Gowdy, Tony Kubek). 

We were left with Cracker Jack Old Timers games in the early 80s.  '87, we went to a sold-out RFK for an April exhibition game, Phillies vs Mets. A '99 exhibition game brought, LaRussa and McGwire's Cards vs  the Expos.  MLB, in its infinite wisdom, decided that TB was a better market than a DC which was quite changed from the riot-filled late 60s.  Yeah, Mr. Angelos, MLB might have lumped DC into the "Baltimore market," by default, but by and large, DC was a Redskins town and didn't really get into the Orioles until Camden Yards.    

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2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yep, the pink hatters.  And the wine and cheese crowd.  

The diehards are what it's all about.  I'm happy for the Nats but I can't pretend that I've been as interested in them on a level that equates to my passion for the Orioles.  I'm not sure how people can just dip in like that, it's weird.

My Uncle and older cousin rib me for staying with the O's. I told them to look at it from my perspective. The O's were all I ever have known. And I'm expected to adopt the Expos just because they moved ot RFK. In 2005, we had just signed Miguel Tejada after Miggy won the MVP, Palmeiro a then fan favorite was back in town, etc. I don't honestly resent the Nats at all. I resent the idea that it was wrong of me to stick with the team I grew up with simply because there was a new kid in town. The Nats have legitimately formed their own identity in the years since but in those early years, they still were the old Expos and for that reason I can definitely understand a native Marylander who was a Senators fan until the Senators left down because they would have seen the '54 Orioles as the old Browns and the old Browns while they had some color to them- Eddie Gaedel, Satchel Paige, and of course Bill Veeck weren't who they had been listening to on the radio.  I did recently read a biography of Veeck. Apparently he wanted to buy the O's at one point and lived on the Eastern Shore which is how he figured out who Harold Baines was.

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1 minute ago, TonySoprano said:

In the 50s, my dad used to go to a lot of Senators games at Griffith Stadium, cheap tickets and cheaper beer.  He took me to ballgames at RFK; there was my hero, Frank Howard, and his hero, Ted Williams was the manager.   After they left, the long commutes to Memorial Stadium were few and far in-between, might as well have been going to the moon.   Orioles games weren't on DC TV, with the few exceptions of Saturday Games of the Week (Curt Gowdy, Tony Kubek). 

We were left with Cracker Jack Old Timers games in the early 80s.  '87, we went to a sold-out RFK for an April exhibition game, Phillies vs Mets.  In a '99 exhibition game, LaRussa and McGwire's Cards vs  the Expos.  MLB, in its infinite wisdom, decided that TB was a better market than a DC which was quite changed from the riot-filled late 60s.  Yeah, Mr. Angelos, MLB might have lumped DC into the "Baltimore market," by default, but by and large, DC was a Redskins town and didn't really get into the Orioles until Camden Yards.    

I can't tell you how many times I've heard my dad tell the story of how he saw Frank Howard hit a home run at RFK that was still rising as it hit the back of the upper deck.  And how the bat looked like a toothpick in his hands.  

Dunno though, growing up in the DC burbs of northern VA, we made the trip up to Memorial Stadium a few times but I was really little.  Camden Yards (and its location, Inner Harbor, easily accessible, don't have to drive through Baltimore) definitely opened up the DC area more but it also drew a lot of fans from other areas.  It was a bonafide regional attraction when it opened.  

DC, unfortunately, will always be a Redskins town.  I would love for that to change.

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4 minutes ago, Palmoripken said:

My Uncle and older cousin rib me for staying with the O's. I told them to look at it from my perspective. The O's were all I ever have known. And I'm expected to adopt the Expos just because they moved ot RFK. In 2005, we had just signed Miguel Tejada after Miggy won the MVP, Palmeiro a then fan favorite was back in town, etc. I don't honestly resent the Nats at all. I resent the idea that it was wrong of me to stick with the team I grew up with simply because there was a new kid in town. The Nats have legitimately formed their own identity in the years since but in those early years, they still were the old Expos and for that reason I can definitely understand a native Marylander who was a Senators fan until the Senators left down because they would have seen the '54 Orioles as the old Browns and the old Browns while they had some color to them- Eddie Gaedel, Satchel Paige, and of course Bill Veeck weren't who they had been listening to on the radio.  I did recently read a biography of Veeck. Apparently he wanted to buy the O's at one point and lived on the Eastern Shore which is how he figured out who Harold Baines was.

Yeah, I couldn't change just because a team moved closer.  Plus it's NL ball and...it sucks.  

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1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I couldn't change just because a team moved closer.  Plus it's NL ball and...it sucks.  

I actually don't hate NL ball. It's just not what I grew up on. But yeah you watch a team over the years. You fall in with its traditions i.e. Thank God I'm a Country Boy or O! during the National Anthem but you also fall in love with a stadium. Camden Yards is a ballpark and while I don't think Nats stadium is a bad stadium, it doesn't give me the sense of wonder I got when I first started regularly attending games as an early grade school kid. Perhaps it would have been different if Nats Stadium opened when I was six but my MLB wanderlust more than anyplace happened at Camden Yards. It's not just about laundry. It's about the community of fandom and I had no desire to just switch. I don't begrudge those who did but I do have a problem with those who think it's absurd that "I don't root for my home team." I'm a Virginian not a Washingtonian. I chose my teams as a kid based off my sense of wonder and what the people I trusted to takl to on sports had to say so I liked that tall shortstop who had that cool streak going and revolutionized the SS positoin and I've been here ever since.

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10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard my dad tell the story of how he saw Frank Howard hit a home run at RFK that was still rising as it hit the back of the upper deck.  And how the bat looked like a toothpick in his hands.  

Dunno though, growing up in the DC burbs of northern VA, we made the trip up to Memorial Stadium a few times but I was really little.  Camden Yards (and its location, Inner Harbor, easily accessible, don't have to drive through Baltimore) definitely opened up the DC area more but it also drew a lot of fans from other areas.  It was a bonafide regional attraction when it opened.  

DC, unfortunately, will always be a Redskins town.  I would love for that to change.

Hondo is a very big man, 6'7", or 3" taller than Boog Powell, who wasn't exactly tiny in those days.   One story I heard was someone tried to barehand catch one of Frank's HRs and ended up with a busted finger.  If my father had his way, we would have lived in NoVA, but instead we were in PG County, same as my mother's family and his.  My father was a lifelong Senators fan and didn't jump on the Yankees bandwagon like his older brother.    I totally get the whole point about how obnoxious bandwagon "fans" are; I have a Joysey in-law who ditched the Mets for the Sawx in '04.  


BTW, Snyder is doing his worst to kill football in DC.

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1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There's no reason Washington shouldn't have their own team.  Every city should have their own team.  Montreal should have one, and Louisville, and Buffalo and Austin.  They're just not my team.  The Nationals are like the Brewers or the Mariners or something.  They're not the Orioles and I have zero emotional attachment to them.

I have no resentment of the Nationals fans, just as I didn't resent last year's... wait, that was the Red Sox.  I resent them.  But besides the Yanks and Sox I don't resent anyone.  It's nice that other fans can be happy for a while.

Get what you're saying Drungo, but the Nats aren't just some other team. Their mere existence directly damages the Orioles ability to compete. They box in the potential fanbase, cut into the team's resources, and exacerbate what was already a financial disadvantage compared to the Red Sox and Yankees. Sure, the Orioles have plenty of self-inflicted wounds that can (and have) been dissected on this board, but the Nats' presence in the market magnifies them. Having plenty of one-time Orioles fans abandon the franchise because their grandfather grew up in Capital Heights and told them stories of Walter Johnson or because their sister went to college at George Mason has a negative affect on the club. 

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3 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Hondo is a very big man, 6'7", or 3" taller than Boog Powell, who wasn't exactly tiny in those days.   One story I heard was someone tried to barehand catch one of Frank's HRs and ended up with a busted finger.  If my father had his way, we would have lived in NoVA, but instead we were in PG County, same as my mother's family and his.  My father was a lifelong Senators fan and didn't jump on the Yankees bandwagon like his older brother.    I totally get the whole point about how obnoxious bandwagon "fans" are; I have a Joysey in-law who ditched the Mets for the Sawx in '04.  


BTW, Snyder is doing his worst to kill football in DC.

I can't imagine someone ditching the Mets for the Sawx.  Especially after '86.  Oh that's right, they have no idea about history.

Snyder has come damn close, it's in the death rattles.  There are a couple generations of fans who were in their 30s, 40s and 50s in the 1980s who remember the good times.  And that's all the Redskins do, they just promote the good times and try to make you envision how good it COULD BE based on how it was.  I was born in September of 1981, my memories of the good times are pretty faint.  And I'm pretty sure I watch the Skins out of habit more than anything now.  

But now that legion of fans is....well, dying off.  Literally, getting old and passing on.  Or getting old and finding other things to do.  Leaving people my age and younger to take up the mantle of being a Redskins fan which is getting harder and harder to do.  That means there are people younger than me who have absolutely no idea what the 80s were like and don't really care.  They've been conditioned to look for other teams or follow something else instead of the NFL.  As the people who were around for the good times pass on, there's going to be a very sizable gap in the interest of the younger generations.  We're already seeing it, Redskins fans are usually outnumbered by the opposing fans and the stadium is never at capacity.  

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My family are Western Pa transplants. By the time my Dad was born in early 50's, his older brothers and sisters had lived in three major cities. Two had big league clubs- St. Louis and Detroit. From what my Dad tells me, my grandfather never really took them to too many games. He went to a couple games at Griffith Stadium but Dad was more of a basketball fan specifically Bob Cousy but not necessarily the Celtics and in baseball of Willie Mays but not necessarily the Giants and he definitely always disliked the Yankees. So here I am born in the mid to late 80's, there has not been a baseball team in DC in 16 years and no sign of it coming back because it to me seemed anyhow that DC and Virginia had adopted the Orioles and baseball wouldn't be returning to DC since teams had left twice. You have a guy like Ripken who during my early years became an American icon and you have my Dad telling me about how he always hated the Yankees. The Orioles were a natural choice to too for since OPACY was the place to see a game. I dunno. I just think the former O's fans who embrace the Nats and now crap on the O's forget that the O's did provide memories and while I understand they dislike what Angelos did to prevent baseball in DC, it really IMO wasn't different from Clark Griffith fighting the O's moving from St. Louis. 

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4 minutes ago, WalkWithElias said:

Get what you're saying Drungo, but the Nats aren't just some other team. Their mere existence directly damages the Orioles ability to compete. They box in the potential fanbase, cut into the team's resources, and exacerbate what was already a financial disadvantage compared to the Red Sox and Yankees. Sure, the Orioles have plenty of self-inflicted wounds that can (and have) been dissected on this board, but the Nats' presence in the market magnifies them. Having plenty of one-time Orioles fans abandon the franchise because their grandfather grew up in Capital Heights and told them stories of Walter Johnson or because their sister went to college at George Mason has a negative affect on the club. 

It's the whole abandoning the O's once the Nats get good. If we ever enter a period where the fortunes are reversed like we saw in the 60's where the O's were contenders and the Senators awful, I wonder what we'll see from people like that. The Walter Johnson Grandfather bit amuses me though since I despite '71 and '79 have a soft spot for the Pirates since my Great Grandfather apparently knew Wagner as a personal friend up in Pittsburgh but I didn't fall in love with baseball at Three Rivers Stadium. I did at OPACY. 

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I’ll be upfront. I can’t stand the Nats and how half of their fans are casual fans who used to be O’s fans because DC is more convenient to get to or because they’re DC natives who think Baltimore is spooky but avoid east DC and Rockville like the plague, failing to realize the irony in that sentiment. I don’t like how this team hurts the orioles money wise and how that will continue because those DC fans are long gone and will never return. It sucks how the orioles don’t advertise in the Norfolk area where the AAA team is because more people identify with DC sports here and rather than trying to convert them, they do squat and don’t make any effort at it. This WS outcome is the worst possible outcome for the O’s MASN and ticket wise. Nats will own the region and a lot of the newer fans who are kids because they have a WS title in their lifetime versus the team that made it when Walkman’s were a thing and Reagan was in the Whitehouse. This next orioles core will be effected $ wise by this unless the Nats fall apart and have to rebuild when this core hits its stride and we get more MASN $. 

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On 10/31/2019 at 11:31 AM, Moose Milligan said:

I can't imagine someone ditching the Mets for the Sawx.  Especially after '86.  Oh that's right, they have no idea about history.

Snyder has come damn close, it's in the death rattles.  There are a couple generations of fans who were in their 30s, 40s and 50s in the 1980s who remember the good times.  And that's all the Redskins do, they just promote the good times and try to make you envision how good it COULD BE based on how it was.  I was born in September of 1981, my memories of the good times are pretty faint.  And I'm pretty sure I watch the Skins out of habit more than anything now.  

But now that legion of fans is....well, dying off.  Literally, getting old and passing on.  Or getting old and finding other things to do.  Leaving people my age and younger to take up the mantle of being a Redskins fan which is getting harder and harder to do.  

I’m a generation older than you. My uncle had Redskins season tickets, so I got to go once a year in the 70s.  Even  then in the George Allen years the lower seating sections bounced and RFK was loud.   Snyder is too attached to this Allen because of the memories of his father, so he won’t do what’s right and fire him. Anyhow, youse guys have gotten way, way too much of the “Soprano backstory”.  What set me off down this road was seeing people red flag the OP just to be petty, or that’s how I saw it anyway.   It’s extremely rare that I would ever do that and it would have to be because of clear obnoxious trolling.  That very seldom happens here.  Congrats Nats.  Maybe their success will lead to a solid offer to buy MASN from the Angelos family.  Sell high, you sons of Angelos. 

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53 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard my dad tell the story of how he saw Frank Howard hit a home run at RFK that was still rising as it hit the back of the upper deck.  And how the bat looked like a toothpick in his hands.  

Dunno though, growing up in the DC burbs of northern VA, we made the trip up to Memorial Stadium a few times but I was really little.  Camden Yards (and its location, Inner Harbor, easily accessible, don't have to drive through Baltimore) definitely opened up the DC area more but it also drew a lot of fans from other areas.  It was a bonafide regional attraction when it opened. 

Growing up in Bethesda as a die hard Orioles fan, I think I attended a grand total of one game in Baltimore until I got my driver’s license in 1973.    No way my dad was going to drive there for a baseball game.    Being 16-17, no internet or electronic maps, and trying to navigate an unfamiliar city and find my way to Memorial Stadium was a challenge.   But I figured it out, and was going there on a regular basis soon with my buddies, most of whom had been Senators fans who I personally converted into Orioles fans.    I’d guess I made the trip 100-150 times before they built OPACY.

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1 hour ago, WalkWithElias said:

Get what you're saying Drungo, but the Nats aren't just some other team. Their mere existence directly damages the Orioles ability to compete. They box in the potential fanbase, cut into the team's resources, and exacerbate what was already a financial disadvantage compared to the Red Sox and Yankees. Sure, the Orioles have plenty of self-inflicted wounds that can (and have) been dissected on this board, but the Nats' presence in the market magnifies them. Having plenty of one-time Orioles fans abandon the franchise because their grandfather grew up in Capital Heights and told them stories of Walter Johnson or because their sister went to college at George Mason has a negative affect on the club. 

The Nats have little impact on the Orioles ability to compete. In 2014 both the Orioles and the Nats were around 2.5M in attendance.  In 1998-2004 the Orioles were awful, and it wasn't the Expos' fault. If anything impacts their ability to compete it's that Baltimore is the 26th-largest market in the country.

I think that the Nats' presence is a net gain.  The competition forces the Orioles to make positive steps to build a strong franchise and contend.  Yes, a few more dollars would be coming from K Street if the Nats were still in Montreal, but it's not that much.

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