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Waiving/non-tendering Villar: pro or con?

Do you approve Elias’ move of waiving Villar?  

120 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Do you agree with putting Villar on waivers?

    • I’m in favor
    • I’m against
    • Don’t know, but I’ll defer to Elias’ judgment

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  • Poll closed on 11/29/2019 at 04:40

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Two thoughts about this.

1) This speaks volumes about the sorry state of contemporary MLB baseball.  20 years ago, and definitely 30 years ago, teams would be falling over themselves to give us a top 100-200 prospect for a 20/40 guy Villar who can play multiple infield positions.  Now the analytics nerds are obsessed with three-true-outcomes oafs who can barely jog and are about as fun to watch as waiting for paint to dry.  His one year, 10 million salary is an enormous bargain for a guy with his skill set who posted 4 WAR last year.  

2) Despite the extant factors about the MLB that may have prevented the Orioles from getting a good deal, I would have appreciated the front office throwing us fans a bone by bringing Villar back.  He's an interesting guy to watch play the game.  I am not looking forward to watching Wilkerson or whatever comparative scrub they stick at second base.  His salary is a huge bargain and we would at least be able to do a salary dump on July 31 if nothing else.  I get that there's a long term plan in play here, and that's totally fine, but in the meantime is it really too much to ask to keep ONE guy on the diamond at a bargain price who isn't a snoozefest to watch?  I'd be happy to get a few more wins and a lot more fun with Villar, even if it means (gasp) "settling" for the #2 pick in the 2021 draft.  I trust Elias's long term plan, but in the short run, just how empty do these guys want Camden Yards to get?

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from MLBTR Chat With Mark Polishuk
https://www.jotcast.com/chat/mlbtr-chat-with-mark-polishuk-6509.html

Frederick freeman
5:19
I’m so confused about the lack of interest in johnathon villar. Ultimately shouldn’t the orioles hold him and pay the $10 mil and trade him during the season when another teams needs change and the money owed is less?
 
Mark P
5:20
Or, if you absolutely have to release him, do it in the last week of Spring Training so you only have to pay him a fraction of his salary (arbitration salaries aren't guaranteed until Opening Day). At least then you can maybe find a trade partner if a team has its second baseman go down to injury in spring.
======================================================================
Arbitration contracts are not guaranteed, as a club can release a player on or before the 16th day of Spring Training and be responsible for only 30 days worth of pay. Players cut between the 17th and the final day of Spring Training must be compensated for 45 days worth of pay (at the prorated version of their arbitration salary). But if a player that agreed to an arbitration salary breaks camp with the club, his contract is fully guaranteed.
=========================================================

 
  • Upvote 1

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3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Agreed ...still a bad move by a Buffoon!

 

Hopefully when Peters passes the team will be sold and the new owner will want to pick his own GM!

I don’t like Elias style or approach and this does it. It’s a slap to fans.

Hes done nothing so far MLB personnel wise  that proves he’s competent or anything more than a bean counter.

He traded Cashner for scraps and anyone can put in waiver claims.

He doesn’t even know how to sell assets 

You know you can't do that here. Stop the name calling.

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3 hours ago, NCRaven said:

Maybe father wanted one last run.  Maybe sons just want profit.  Maybe.

That's something we don't know for sure yet and won't until the team is competitive. Moves like this though are an ominous sign if Elias is making this move because his budget forces his hand.

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55 minutes ago, AZRon said:

from MLBTR Chat With Mark Polishuk
https://www.jotcast.com/chat/mlbtr-chat-with-mark-polishuk-6509.html

Frederick freeman
5:19
I’m so confused about the lack of interest in johnathon villar. Ultimately shouldn’t the orioles hold him and pay the $10 mil and trade him during the season when another teams needs change and the money owed is less?
 
Mark P
5:20
Or, if you absolutely have to release him, do it in the last week of Spring Training so you only have to pay him a fraction of his salary (arbitration salaries aren't guaranteed until Opening Day). At least then you can maybe find a trade partner if a team has its second baseman go down to injury in spring.
======================================================================
Arbitration contracts are not guaranteed, as a club can release a player on or before the 16th day of Spring Training and be responsible for only 30 days worth of pay. Players cut between the 17th and the final day of Spring Training must be compensated for 45 days worth of pay (at the prorated version of their arbitration salary). But if a player that agreed to an arbitration salary breaks camp with the club, his contract is fully guaranteed.
=========================================================

 

I didn't even think about the releasing him in spring training option. This tells me Elias is trying to force the hands of a few teams to up their offers. We'll see if this works.

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1 hour ago, FanSince88 said:

Two thoughts about this.

1) This speaks volumes about the sorry state of contemporary MLB baseball.  20 years ago, and definitely 30 years ago, teams would be falling over themselves to give us a top 100-200 prospect for a 20/40 guy Villar who can play multiple infield positions.  Now the analytics nerds are obsessed with three-true-outcomes oafs who can barely jog and are about as fun to watch as waiting for paint to dry.  His one year, 10 million salary is an enormous bargain for a guy with his skill set who posted 4 WAR last year.  

2) Despite the extant factors about the MLB that may have prevented the Orioles from getting a good deal, I would have appreciated the front office throwing us fans a bone by bringing Villar back.  He's an interesting guy to watch play the game.  I am not looking forward to watching Wilkerson or whatever comparative scrub they stick at second base.  His salary is a huge bargain and we would at least be able to do a salary dump on July 31 if nothing else.  I get that there's a long term plan in play here, and that's totally fine, but in the meantime is it really too much to ask to keep ONE guy on the diamond at a bargain price who isn't a snoozefest to watch?  I'd be happy to get a few more wins and a lot more fun with Villar, even if it means (gasp) "settling" for the #2 pick in the 2021 draft.  I trust Elias's long term plan, but in the short run, just how empty do these guys want Camden Yards to get?

Its worse than that.  The trade market is cut down because the large market teams know a small(er) market team can't keep a $10 million player on a bad roster, so why give something up when you can just pay for him later in FA.

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6 hours ago, SteveA said:

Really?   What makes you say that?

I think it's been around 2022 +/- one year since he took over.   Certainly letting go of a guy who will be a free agent after 2020 doesn't move the yardstick.

Cite an example of how you think the "yardstick has moved".

2023?  See you are moving it.   If they aren’t more competitive by 2021 he should be fired.  

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3 hours ago, FanSince88 said:

Two thoughts about this.

1) This speaks volumes about the sorry state of contemporary MLB baseball.  20 years ago, and definitely 30 years ago, teams would be falling over themselves to give us a top 100-200 prospect for a 20/40 guy Villar who can play multiple infield positions.  Now the analytics nerds are obsessed with three-true-outcomes oafs who can barely jog and are about as fun to watch as waiting for paint to dry.  His one year, 10 million salary is an enormous bargain for a guy with his skill set who posted 4 WAR last year.  

2) Despite the extant factors about the MLB that may have prevented the Orioles from getting a good deal, I would have appreciated the front office throwing us fans a bone by bringing Villar back.  He's an interesting guy to watch play the game.  I am not looking forward to watching Wilkerson or whatever comparative scrub they stick at second base.  His salary is a huge bargain and we would at least be able to do a salary dump on July 31 if nothing else.  I get that there's a long term plan in play here, and that's totally fine, but in the meantime is it really too much to ask to keep ONE guy on the diamond at a bargain price who isn't a snoozefest to watch?  I'd be happy to get a few more wins and a lot more fun with Villar, even if it means (gasp) "settling" for the #2 pick in the 2021 draft.  I trust Elias's long term plan, but in the short run, just how empty do these guys want Camden Yards to get?

If they replace Villar with an exemplary glove like Yolbert Sanchez, I can completely understand banking the rest of the money to help pay for the new development coaches, analytics, etc.  As the top pitching prospects start getting here, the big thing is to improve the defense, and if they can add Sanchez and Iglesias at the MIF positions, then I'd consider that a win.  

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11 minutes ago, atomic said:

2023?  See you are moving it.   If they aren’t more competitive by 2021 he should be fired.  

Define “more competitive.”   Here’s the Astros’ progression:  56 the year before Luhnow arrived, then 55, 51, 70, 86, 84, 101.   So 2021 would be the 70 win year if we improved at the same pace     

 

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2 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its worse than that.  The trade market is cut down because the large market teams know a small(er) market team can't keep a $10 million player on a bad roster, so why give something up when you can just pay for him later in FA.

Yup, you nailed it.  The other factor driving down Villar's price -- besides the devaluing of basepath ability in the modern game -- is that 2/3 of the American League is basically tanking.  So it's a double whammy -- Villar has undervalued tools, and the market stinks for sellers.  Oh, and teams are hoarding prospects more than they ever have.  Having fun yet?  I hope Manfred realizes what a bore his game is becoming.  

 

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24 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

If they replace Villar with an exemplary glove like Yolbert Sanchez, I can completely understand banking the rest of the money to help pay for the new development coaches, analytics, etc.  As the top pitching prospects start getting here, the big thing is to improve the defense, and if they can add Sanchez and Iglesias at the MIF positions, then I'd consider that a win.  

That's a big if, and I'm not holding my breath.  At the bare minimum, they need to find someone who is a defensive upgrade from Villar, bat be darned.  At least then it will give our pitchers a break, and bring the games to a merciful end more quickly.  

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2 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its worse than that.  The trade market is cut down because the large market teams know a small(er) market team can't keep a $10 million player on a bad roster, so why give something up when you can just pay for him later in FA.

The Orioles can afford to pay Villar the $3 million extra! So your argument doesn't hold water. They are choosing not to as they are going to stink and want to pocket the money instead.

 

 

24 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

If they replace Villar with an exemplary glove like Yolbert Sanchez, I can completely understand banking the rest of the money to help pay for the new development coaches, analytics, etc.  As the top pitching prospects start getting here, the big thing is to improve the defense, and if they can add Sanchez and Iglesias at the MIF positions, then I'd consider that a win.  

They will draft a 20 year old rule 5 player that has no business in the majors. Even if he's solid defensively your basically playing with an automatic out. Just like they did much of the year with Martin. The problem is that even if this kid makes it through the season on the club, he goes back to the minors for 3+ years and most likely never makes it back. Personally, I don't think Martin will ever hit enough in the majors to ever be more than a space filler.

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40 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The Orioles can afford to pay Villar the $3 million extra! So your argument doesn't hold water. They are choosing not to as they are going to stink and want to pocket the money instead.

 

 

They will draft a 20 year old rule 5 player that has no business in the majors. Even if he's solid defensively your basically playing with an automatic out. Just like they did much of the year with Martin. The problem is that even if this kid makes it through the season on the club, he goes back to the minors for 3+ years and most likely never makes it back. Personally, I don't think Martin will ever hit enough in the majors to ever be more than a space filler.

Right, but right now, it is more important for guys like Akin and Kremer to come up with an improved defense.  Right now that should be the focus, giving those guys as much help for development.  

Also, I get what you are saying about Martin, but before the 2018 season, the Athletics gave him an eye exam and he turned in his best offensive year by far.  So let's see what a year in AAA will do.  

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2 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its worse than that.  The trade market is cut down because the large market teams know a small(er) market team can't keep a $10 million player on a bad roster, so why give something up when you can just pay for him later in FA.

Because if you give something up you get first crack at him. If you wait to free agency, anyone can sign him and someone might pay him more than $10M.

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