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Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

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1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

Because they don’t care, they see only the surface, and every writer loves to have a good team to love, an evil team to hate, and a stupid team to laugh at. It SHOULD be the Marlins, but everyone is so in love with Jeter they give him a pass.

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30 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Mike Moustakis to the Reds for 4/64 is just shocking. Villar was a better player last season and over the last 4. I think the Reds will regret the decision.

Shocking yes. The Marlins and Mets aren’t the only team run by Neanderthals. Will regret? You bet. But Moose is a far better player over many more seasons. He’s definitely not worth what he got, but he’s sure worth more than Villar.

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2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Do you think you would feel differently about the situation if you were spending a good amount of your entertainment dollar on tickets?

No, I don't. 

I enjoy watching baseball live, and sure, I enjoy watching the Orioles winning.  But whether I go to two games in a year, or twenty... if my team is losing in a far-below-500 season, I don't care about them winning one or two extra games that I attend, if that will do anything to delay their return to winning baseball.

It doesn't matter if I'm in the stands or following at home... the goal is the same.

 

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34 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

No, I don't. 

I enjoy watching baseball live, and sure, I enjoy watching the Orioles winning.  But whether I go to two games in a year, or twenty... if my team is losing in a far-below-500 season, I don't care about them winning one or two extra games that I attend, if that will do anything to delay their return to winning baseball.

It doesn't matter if I'm in the stands or following at home... the goal is the same.

 

I agree with this.  For me I understand why people enjoyed watching Villar, but to me I never saw him long term.  It always seemed he was here to be moved.  

Guys like Hays and Santander following and seeing what they do means more to me.  While I have a level of expectation that Bundy goes and less so Mancini, the guys we follow for years are tougher to see go.  

If we see Hays, Diaz, Harvey, Mountcastle, Akin with Means and Mancini (and maybe others) I'll find my happy place.  Even with the losing I watched almost every game (not west coast games I cant handle...haha) on MASN and got enjoyment.  Only went to 1.  It's not winning, but there are still things that lead to me enjoying orioles baseball.  

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5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he was an O's fan he'd remember the 14 years of losing that were the result of half measures and trying to field a "competitive" team for the fans.

False equivalency.  I understand the need to rebuild.  I don’t believe Villar makes the Orioles competitive.  I also don’t believe that trading him for a non-prospect aids the rebuild in a meaningful way.  It makes my fan experience worse.  Ownership may spend more when Elias is ready, but I doubt $10mil (less the minimal cost of his replacement) saved today will have any impact on what we spend later.

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6 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

False equivalency.  I understand the need to rebuild.  I don’t believe Villar makes the Orioles competitive.  I also don’t believe that trading him for a non-prospect aids the rebuild in a meaningful way.  It makes my fan experience worse.  Ownership may spend more when Elias is ready, but I doubt $10mil (less the minimal cost of his replacement) saved today will have any impact on what we spend later.

He’s not a non-prospect, he’s a fringe prospect, but otherwise point taken.

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I understand that at some point there is a budget constraint.  The O's can't have a $200 million payroll.  Given their competitive situation it makes sense for the O's payroll to be one of the lowest in baseball.   I would not advocate signing any big-ticket or medium-ticket veteran free agents this offseason.  

But the O's payroll was going to be one of the lowest in the league, whether or not they paid Jonathan Villar $10 million.   If it's nevertheless so important for the O's to save that $10 million that they are willing to insult their fans by trading their best returning player for a token prospect, then there are two possibilities, both of which are terrible for an Orioles fan: 

(1) The Angelos family is in such dire straits financially that they have told Elias that he has to cut payroll to the bone if he wants to make any sensible long-term investments in building up the team's competitive infrastructure.

(2) The Angelos family is so greedy that they don't care about insulting their fans.  They just want the money.  

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I am willing to admit that the additions of Hays and Mountcastle, whenever Elias seems him ready, could make the team more entertaining.  But those additions were going to happen whether Villar was here or not.

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6 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I understand that at some point there is a budget constraint.  The O's can't have a $200 million payroll.  Given their competitive situation it makes sense for the O's payroll to be one of the lowest in baseball.   I would not advocate signing any big-ticket or medium-ticket veteran free agents this offseason.  

But the O's payroll was going to be one of the lowest in the league, whether or not they paid Jonathan Villar $10 million.   If it's nevertheless so important for the O's to save that $10 million that they are willing to insult their fans by trading their best returning player for a token prospect, then there are two possibilities, both of which are terrible for an Orioles fan: 

(1) The Angelos family is in such dire straits financially that they have told Elias that he has to cut payroll to the bone if he wants to make any sensible long-term investments in building up the team's competitive infrastructure.

(2) The Angelos family is so greedy that they don't care about insulting their fans.  They just want the money.  

Or (3).  The Angelos family is preparing to sell the team. 

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6 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I understand that at some point there is a budget constraint.  The O's can't have a $200 million payroll.  Given their competitive situation it makes sense for the O's payroll to be one of the lowest in baseball.   I would not advocate signing any big-ticket or medium-ticket veteran free agents this offseason.  

But the O's payroll was going to be one of the lowest in the league, whether or not they paid Jonathan Villar $10 million.   If it's nevertheless so important for the O's to save that $10 million that they are willing to insult their fans by trading their best returning player for a token prospect, then there are two possibilities, both of which are terrible for an Orioles fan: 

(1) The Angelos family is in such dire straits financially that they have told Elias that he has to cut payroll to the bone if he wants to make any sensible long-term investments in building up the team's competitive infrastructure.

(2) The Angelos family is so greedy that they don't care about insulting their fans.  They just want the money.  

They're very likely to trade Bundy and Givens within the next 2 weeks. And there won't be an immediate MLB contributor coming back either.

I don't believe the Angelos family is in dire straits or "so greedy". I believe the plan was to strip it to the studs and build a quality organization. And that will take years.

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11 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

I actually pretty much agree with Atomic here, the only position I think he can be average with the glove is 3B, maybe. He’s probably passable at 2B, but the bat is not nearly good enough. Wilkerson is probably close to if not top on my first guy off the 40 list. 

Do you have any numbers to back that up?   The numbers I am looking at say  that Alberto may be better than Wilkerson  defensively at 2B but Wilkerson is better than Villar was at 2B  defensively.

I think Alberto and Wilkerson are close enough together defensively at 2B that its how they  do offensively that will tell the story.  Right now it looks like Wilkerson hits righties better and Alberto hits lefties better.   I think both get  a chance to show they can hit all pitcher in ST.   May the best man win.

Wilkerson does not have enough playing time in the majors at 2B to be meaningful.  But his minor league careers numbers at 2B defensively look pretty good.

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8 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I understand that at some point there is a budget constraint.  The O's can't have a $200 million payroll.  Given their competitive situation it makes sense for the O's payroll to be one of the lowest in baseball.   I would not advocate signing any big-ticket or medium-ticket veteran free agents this offseason.  

But the O's payroll was going to be one of the lowest in the league, whether or not they paid Jonathan Villar $10 million.   If it's nevertheless so important for the O's to save that $10 million that they are willing to insult their fans by trading their best returning player for a token prospect, then there are two possibilities, both of which are terrible for an Orioles fan: 

(1) The Angelos family is in such dire straits financially that they have told Elias that he has to cut payroll to the bone if he wants to make any sensible long-term investments in building up the team's competitive infrastructure.

(2) The Angelos family is so greedy that they don't care about insulting their fans.  They just want the money.  

I think option (2) is roughly correct, but exaggerated. I think their main concern is $$, but they'd like Elias to build a winning team too. It would be a nice side benefit to the profitable business they're running.

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4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Do you have any numbers to back that up?   The numbers I am looking at say  that Alberto may be better than Wilkerson  defensively at 2B but Wilkerson is better than Villar was at 2B  defensively.

I think Alberto and Wilkerson are close enough together defensively at 2B that its how they  do offensively that will tell the story.  Right now it looks like Wilkerson hit righties better and Alberto hits lefties better.   I think both get  a chance to show they can hit all pitcher in ST.   May the best man win.

Wilkerson does not have enough playing time in the majors at 2B to be meaningful.  But his minor league careers numbers at 2B defensively look pretty good.

Wilkerson is 27 and had a 74 wRC+ last year and Baseball Savant's expected statistics say he was actually very lucky with balls in play. He's so bad. Who cares if he can play a mediocre 2B?

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As far as Villar goes, people do realize that he would only be here one year and then he was a free agent, unlikely to be signed by the O's   to a long term deal? Right? And that's even if had the same year as last year which I think unlikely, as does most of the rest of the league I would guess. He was benched by Milwaukee in 2017 for his lackluster defense and sloppy base running, but has rebounded nicely here. I think Elias thinks we can make up for his lost offense with an  outfield of Hays, Mountcastle, Santander et al, and as far as his defense goes, I don't think its going to be that hard to  find an upgrade to  him and Martin, probably one of the worst tandems in the American League. I suspect they'll win more games in 2020 than they did in 2019..... Now, if they give up Bundy (league average innings eater)  for nothing, I think I'd be really ticked off.    

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