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Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

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22 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Villar was not "given away".  The Os received market value for Villar's expected 2019 contribution and cost.

Negotiations strategies can be handled many different ways, but in the case of Villar and the pending non-tender the biggest issues (after having failed to deal Villar since last year's trade deadline) is URGENCY!  In this situation, letting other GMs know there was a deadline - especially during a time when these guys are working on their 40 man rosters and their 2020 budget - was absolutely the right thing to do.  (Besides, I find the suggestion that other GMs would not be aware of or figure out the urgency regarding Villar to be ridiculous).  

I really don't understand the Cashner complaints either.  As if folks believe we turned down some organization's top 5 prospect offer.  It is difficult to get excited about the return for Cashner, but it was a market value transaction also.

Between Villar and Cashner the Orioles saved about $15M.  If they had not traded them they would have been out $15M for about 3-4 wins on a 50-something win team.  The reason neither brought back high-caliber prospects was because they had a $15M bill attached to them that the accepting teams now have to pay.

I understand the position that all of that money just disappears into the ether, that the Angelos family gets to light cigars with it.  Maybe that's true.  But I like to think that Mike Elias gets to add at least some of that to the account they're using to upgrade the franchise in 100 ways, mostly behind the scenes.

Here's a funny thing... the Marlins acquired Villar and his presumptive $10M salary.  Currently they have two players making over MLB minimum.  Villar and Wei Yin Chen, who will make $22M in 2020.  Barring any future expensive moves they're going to have about a $50M payroll, with $32M of that going to Chen and Villar.  I don't know what sense that makes, unless someone whispered in Jeter's ear that it's unbecoming to have a 57-win team with a new taxpayer funded stadium and $209M in shared MLB revenues and a $30M payroll.

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1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

I think he passed on more at the trade deadline than he received the other day. That's obviously my opinion, but in the interview after the July deadline he said that he was under no pressure to trade anyone else as he had no other pending free agents. A miscalculation in his narrative if you are planning not to tender your best player a contract.

A miscalculation IF your assumption is correct. However, common sense was that the deadline was the high point to trade Villar.  You assume Elias is dumb and incompetent.   I don't. 

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2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Not keeping Villar is really about the O's pitching or lack there of.  The O's can't win without competitive pitching.   They don't have.  They can't buy it.  And therefore they will lose in 2020.   So spending money on Villar who is probably gone after the 2020 season to FA makes no sense to the long term plan.

Some are making the case that its important to spend  money and keep Villar to make the O's easier to watch in 2020.   That is clearly not in Elias long term plan.   He will use that money for things that will help the team long term.   Like the 7m that he will need to shell out for the #2 draft choice next season.  

Elias has been clear about his focus.   Adding talent  to the organization that helps the O's win in the future.  You may not like it but no one should be calling him a lair.   He has been up front with the fans since he arrived.

 

 

Who is calling him a liar! I called him several names the other day but a Liar wasn't one of them. I don't think he is doing anything that he didn't observe in Houston except I don't believe he has mastered the art of the trade yet.

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1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

A miscalculation IF your assumption is correct. However, common sense was that the deadline was the high point to trade Villar.  You assume Elias is dumb and incompetent.   I don't. 

Thank you. 

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2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I think he passed on more at the trade deadline than he received the other day. That's obviously my opinion, but in the interview after the July deadline he said that he was under no pressure to trade anyone else as he had no other pending free agents. A miscalculation in his narrative if you are planning not to tender your best player a contract.

lol - are you serious?  One post you are criticizing Elias for making his plan known and the next you are bashing him for saying he was under no pressure to make a deal!  Make up your mind, dude, is he going to #### or is he going to kill us?

 

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Just now, Roll Tide said:

Who is calling him a liar! I called him several names the other day but a Liar wasn't one of them. I don't think he is doing anything that he didn't observe in Houston except I don't believe he has mastered the art of the trade yet.

Do you really believe Elias was offered anything of significant value (a top ten prospect) at the deadline?

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1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Do you really believe Elias was offered anything of significant value (a top ten prospect) at the deadline?

I doubt he was offered anything in the top 25.

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2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

A miscalculation IF your assumption is correct. However, common sense was that the deadline was the high point to trade Villar.  You assume Elias is dumb and incompetent.   I don't. 

So I've given you statements and actions by Elias as my reasons for my conclusions. Offer anything at all that supports your position.

Additionally, dont put words in my mouth! I never said either one of those things! I think he is an analytics and statistical guy and that is his strong suit. I think he's made a few rookie mistakes and hopefully has learned from them!

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1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

So I've given you statements and actions by Elias as my reasons for my conclusions. Offer anything at all that supports your position.

Additionally, dont put words in my mouth! I never said either one of those things! I think he is an analytics and statistical guy and that is his strong suit. I think he's made a few rookie mistakes and hopefully has learned from them!

You don't think he's a scouting guy?

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15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Between Villar and Cashner the Orioles saved about $15M.  If they had not traded them they would have been out $15M for about 3-4 wins on a 50-something win team.  The reason neither brought back high-caliber prospects was because they had a $15M bill attached to them that the accepting teams now have to pay.

I understand the position that all of that money just disappears into the ether, that the Angelos family gets to light cigars with it.  Maybe that's true.  But I like to think that Mike Elias gets to add at least some of that to the account they're using to upgrade the franchise in 100 ways, mostly behind the scenes.

Here's a funny thing... the Marlins acquired Villar and his presumptive $10M salary.  Currently they have two players making over MLB minimum.  Villar and Wei Yin Chen, who will make $22M in 2020.  Barring any future expensive moves they're going to have about a $50M payroll, with $32M of that going to Chen and Villar.  I don't know what sense that makes, unless someone whispered in Jeter's ear that it's unbecoming to have a 57-win team with a new taxpayer funded stadium and $209M in shared MLB revenues and a $30M payroll.

They did release Chen a few weeks ago.   However if your point is they are still on the hook for paying him, then you are probably correct.

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4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Nobody has said that so quit acting like you are being redeemed

Oh come on. Your rant started with:

incompetent

Buffoon

a bigger idiot than I thought

You've only softened in terms of saying he doesn't know what he's doing, doesn't know how to make a trade, said more than he should have, he blew the trade market, and so on.

And you've repeated the same message not less than 50 times in the last week. Please, please give it a rest. 

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6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So I've given you statements and actions by Elias as my reasons for my conclusions. Offer anything at all that supports your position.

Additionally, dont put words in my mouth! I never said either one of those things! I think he is an analytics and statistical guy and that is his strong suit. I think he's made a few rookie mistakes and hopefully has learned from them!

Sorry. Must have gotten mixed up. I thought you called Elias incompetent previously.  Still, I ask if you think Elias passed on another  team's top ten prospect or something like that at the deadline?

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3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Do you really believe Elias was offered anything of significant value (a top ten prospect) at the deadline?

Probably nothing close to the top 100. But many organizations have guys in the 5-10 range that don't meet that criteria. A couple of years ago the Orioles passed on a deal for Britton at the deadline that included Colin Moran. (I know Elias wasn't the GM). Moran was blocked, had some type of injury he was coming off, and he was 25 I believe.

That is the deal I think we should have made for Brittion! But I think Elias would have passed on that deal as well considering how far we are away from contending. So perhaps he was and it was not the right fit based on his long term goal.

The only thing strongly suspect is it was more than we got from the Marlins.

 

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I doubt he was offered anything in the top 25.

Another kernel of Wisdom 😂

 

Sorry I couldn't resist ..... Seems kind of pointless to continue ?

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1 minute ago, SteveA said:

They did release Chen a few weeks ago.   However if your point is they are still on the hook for paying him, then you are probably correct.

I didn't know that.  But yea, they are still paying him $22M this year.  That was a terrible contract.  $80M for 13 wins (and about -2 WAR) over five years.

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