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Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

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43 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Nobody wonders why attendance is down right now.   It was a point of useful discussion in 2016-17.    Since then, the equation is simple: losing —> lower attendance.    And guess what?   It will continue going down until the team starts winning much more often than it is right now.    Elias knows that.    The Angelos family knows that.   We all know that.     And if you don’t want to pay to watch the team as they go through the demolition stage of their rebuild, then don’t.    Nobody’s going to take your Oriole fan card away if you don’t want to pay to watch this.    

For me, I’ve decided to trust the process for at least a couple of years.   I like going to baseball games too much to stop going.    Will I go to fewer games than I would if they were winning?    Sure.    But it’s not because I feel betrayed.  It’s not because I think the team is being greedy, or disloyal.    For me, they’re doing what they think they need to do to turn the team around in the most efficient way possible.   It’s not pretty.    I hope it works.   
 

I don’t disagree with this. I will say it’s going to turn off more people. And that’s not a good thing.

It feels cold. That’s pretty much it. And I don’t feel that the organization is trying to retain as many fans as possible. It’s one thing to cut the payroll of the team. It’s another to, say, cut FanFest without giving a meaningful plan of what they intend to do to stay relevant to what remaining loyal fans are left.

I’m just frustrated. I’ll probably re-up if for nothing else for my 6 year old son, because it’s a formidable time for kids to get interested (and remain) in the sport. But I can’t say the same for other families that might take all of the above as reason to not invest in the club. And, I don’t really blame them.

It’s cold. And it feels like it’ll get worse. I have faith in the plan. It just sucks as of the moment.

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19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m obviously off on a small island of people who think that money not spent on payroll in 2020 can either be spent on other things or spent at a more advantageous time.    I’ve found that arguing with people about this is about as productive as arguing about religion.     So, if you want to believe the money will just line the owners’ pockets and never be seen again, go ahead, because I’ll never convince you otherwise and you won’t change my mind, either.   At the end of the day, the only objectively verifiable fact will be if the team starts winning in a reasonable time or not.   And frankly, I care much more about that than I do about how much money goes in the owners’ pockets.

I hear what you are saying on this! The problem with baseball is that it is impossible to tell if they spend money saved during a down period.

In football they can spend cap leftovers the following year.

I'm sure you know where I stand on this topic and with a few guys it hasn't been very popular.

I will say that the Orioles claim to have lost money back in 2017 when they were competing. So perhaps you are right.

We agree on winning and it can't happen fast enough!

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Now what will we get for Bundy, Givens and Mancini? They will be dealt in San Diego at the Winter meetings the week of the 8th -12th if not sooner. Count on it. Maybe we can bring the Norfolk team to Baltimore in 2020.

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7 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

I don’t disagree with this. I will say it’s going to turn off more people. And that’s not a good thing.

It feels cold. That’s pretty much it. And I don’t feel that the organization is trying to retain as many fans as possible. It’s one thing to cut the payroll of the team. It’s another to, say, cut FanFest without giving a meaningful plan of what they intend to do to stay relevant to what remaining loyal fans are left.

I’m just frustrated. I’ll probably re-up if for nothing else for my 6 year old son, because it’s a formidable time for kids to get interested (and remain) in the sport. But I can’t say the same for other families that might take all of the above as reason to not invest in the club. And, I don’t really blame them.

It’s cold. And it feels like it’ll get worse. I have faith in the plan. It just sucks as of the moment.

My similarly aged daughter has less than zero interest in going to Oriole games.  She will watch girls high school soccer and basketball but no Orioles. 

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35 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m obviously off on a small island of people who think that money not spent on payroll in 2020 can either be spent on other things or spent at a more advantageous time.    I’ve found that arguing with people about this is about as productive as arguing about religion.     So, if you want to believe the money will just line the owners’ pockets and never be seen again, go ahead, because I’ll never convince you otherwise and you won’t change my mind, either.   At the end of the day, the only objectively verifiable fact will be if the team starts winning in a reasonable time or not.   And frankly, I care much more about that than I do about how much money goes in the owners’ pockets.

I think in this case it is clearly a case of the owners pocketing the money.  They cancelled fan fest to save a dime.  

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3 minutes ago, section18 said:

Now what will we get for Bundy, Givens and Mancini? They will be dealt in San Diego at the Winter meetings the week of the 8th -12th if not sooner. Count on it. Maybe we can bring the Norfolk team to Baltimore in 2020.

Mancini isn't going anywhere before the next decade.

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Elias has said they will listen to offers for anyone. Mancini is not  going to be happy playing for this team after they deal Bundy and Givens and Elias will want to go to an all rookie outfield next year. Mancini and Bundy are both at $5.7 million. Cobb is next at 14 million and he hopes he gets off to a decent start in 2020 so they can deal him. Cut the payroll down to 36 million and take on Davis. He will do this with the hope Davis calls him and says he wants to negotiate a buyout. Is the draft supposed to be good in 2020? No # 2's for Mike. He wants number 1's. and big profits. Tare down the team and Davis will want to leave. Millions more saved........maybe?

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Lucas has some interesting traits, but the stuff is pretty blah, average slider, everything else fringe. Average command, strikethower, including his offspeed pitches. The changeup inconsistent but could get to average as well. Gets some hop on his fastball, so it plays a little above it’s sitting velocity of 89-91, but it’s going to have trouble playing in the upper minors without some improvements. 

The body and delivery are better than the stuff and he’s missed serious time fairly recently, so there could be more stuff in the tank. 

As a total package, it’s like Bruce Zimmermann with a bit more ceiling but significantly more proximity risk. Would be somewhere in the 31-40 range of Orioles prospects for me. He’s better than his draft status but nothing to be excited about.

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2 hours ago, section18 said:

Now what will we get for Bundy, Givens and Mancini? They will be dealt in San Diego at the Winter meetings the week of the 8th -12th if not sooner. Count on it. Maybe we can bring the Norfolk team to Baltimore in 2020.

Considering Bundy and Givens are not very good probably not a lot 

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If the O's pick up a good defensive SS for cheap and drop Davis by May, I'll forgive them for this.

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1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Lucas has some interesting traits, but the stuff is pretty blah, average slider, everything else fringe. Average command, strikethower, including his offspeed pitches. The changeup inconsistent but could get to average as well. Gets some hop on his fastball, so it plays a little above it’s sitting velocity of 89-91, but it’s going to have trouble playing in the upper minors without some improvements. 

The body and delivery are better than the stuff and he’s missed serious time fairly recently, so there could be more stuff in the tank. 

As a total package, it’s like Bruce Zimmermann with a bit more ceiling but significantly more proximity risk. Would be somewhere in the 31-40 range of Orioles prospects for me. He’s better than his draft status but nothing to be excited about.

Thanks for the report. Could you explain what you mean by proximity risk? Never heard that terminology before. 

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Quote

 

“I think that could change by the end of the year,” executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias said last night. “You look at guys like Mason McCoy and Rylan Bannon, who are getting close, but in terms of second base/shortstop, those are areas where we might have to explore other players from other avenues.

“Maybe they’re young players who come to the organization in trades or maybe they’re guys that we sign and bring to the organization. But as much as we all enjoyed Jonathan and how well he played this year, with where he was in his career, with coming up against free agency, with the salary range that he was getting into, we felt like there are players that have a little bit more long-term possibility with our organization and where it’s going and our timeline that we’re anticipating.

“We’ll see who ends up competing for those spots this year, who we end up bringing into the organization, how our guys look who are in the minor leagues when they come to spring training. But I think that clearing the avenue for some players who potentially are under control longer or have a chance to be under control longer makes sense for us.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/taking-another-look-at-bleier-signing-and-villars-departure.html

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4 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Lucas has some interesting traits, but the stuff is pretty blah, average slider, everything else fringe. Average command, strikethower, including his offspeed pitches. The changeup inconsistent but could get to average as well. Gets some hop on his fastball, so it plays a little above it’s sitting velocity of 89-91, but it’s going to have trouble playing in the upper minors without some improvements. 

The body and delivery are better than the stuff and he’s missed serious time fairly recently, so there could be more stuff in the tank. 

As a total package, it’s like Bruce Zimmermann with a bit more ceiling but significantly more proximity risk. Would be somewhere in the 31-40 range of Orioles prospects for me. He’s better than his draft status but nothing to be excited about.

Thanks. Seems like a pretty positive review of him.  He fits the type of pitcher that Elias drafted last year, once he finally did draft a pitcher. College starter. He was 22 last year in Aberdeen, a bunch of the SP we drafted were 21-23 in the GCL. 

A funny thought for anyone that thinks we should’ve kicked in money for Villar to buy a better prospect... I wonder how much Miami would have sold us their Competitive Balance pick for?  Probably not the 2-3 million that DD was handing them out for. 

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5 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Lucas has some interesting traits, but the stuff is pretty blah, average slider, everything else fringe. Average command, strikethower, including his offspeed pitches. The changeup inconsistent but could get to average as well. Gets some hop on his fastball, so it plays a little above it’s sitting velocity of 89-91, but it’s going to have trouble playing in the upper minors without some improvements. 

The body and delivery are better than the stuff and he’s missed serious time fairly recently, so there could be more stuff in the tank. 

As a total package, it’s like Bruce Zimmermann with a bit more ceiling but significantly more proximity risk. Would be somewhere in the 31-40 range of Orioles prospects for me. He’s better than his draft status but nothing to be excited about.

So, he may have a better chance of achieving moderate success at the major league level than Jemile Weeks had?

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