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Legend_Of_Joey

What do you want from this rebuild?

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2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm not naive enough to think we'll contend every year, but I want sustained success. And barring unforeseen circumstances for this to the lowest low...ever. 

That'll be next season.  I hate to tell you. 

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1 hour ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

We know this is going to be a cold, soulless, "screw the fans" process.

But what is "acceptable" for the end result?

World Series champions?

Playoff contenders every year Elias is here after the "rebuild" is done?

Fighting for first in the East, even if they fall short a few times?

.500 or better and you are happy? 

Anything in between? 

For me personally, it's 7-10 years (hopefully more) of competitive baseball, in the running for the postseason every year.  Something like the Cardinals have going over the last several years - either making the playoffs, or just missing but being in contention.  Elias' talent pipeline, if executed correctly, should accomplish that.  WS would be great, but it's a crapshoot, as the Nats showed this year.

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The low bar would be a five year run in the 20s that is equivalent to Duquette’s 2012-2016.  If they don’t achieve that, this experiment will be a failure.

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Sustained success, it doesn't have to be contention every year, but most.  And the permanent retirement of the term "once proud franchise" in all media - even the laziest.

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2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Just to be clear, Elias has not used the term “cosmetic victories” that you put in quotes.    Those are your words, not his, right?  

I read it in another comment, and I thought it was a quote of his. I thought it was his word, but if it is not, then it must’ve been something originated with the writer of the comments I read. I’m sorry if I got the source incorrect.

 

addendum:The point remains entirely valid, however, even if the specific wording is different.

Edited by Philip
Addendum

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Playoff contenders every year.  And one....just one...World Series title.  I'm not about to get greedy and entitled like a Sox or Yankees fan but I'm approaching 40 and the thought of not seeing a WS title in my lifetime has been a thought.

 

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3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Playoff contenders every year.  And one....just one...World Series title.  I'm not about to get greedy and entitled like a Sox or Yankees fan but I'm approaching 40 and the thought of not seeing a WS title in my lifetime has been a thought.

 

I remember when I thought 40 was old.

It was a long time ago.

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1 hour ago, backwardsk said:

The low bar would be a five year run in the 20s that is equivalent to Duquette’s 2012-2016.  If they don’t achieve that, this experiment will be a failure.

I agree. The results of the tanking have to exceed the results of a typical rebuild. If Elias puts the Orioles through five 100+ loss seasons or whatever - they better win a Championship and have more than the three postseason appearances of DD/Buck's 2012-2016.

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9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Playoff contenders every year.  And one....just one...World Series title.  I'm not about to get greedy and entitled like a Sox or Yankees fan but I'm approaching 40 and the thought of not seeing a WS title in my lifetime has been a thought.

 

I think that's unrealistic, unless the structure of player acquisition, retention and compensation is altered significantly in a way that levels the competition among teams with different levels of resources, or the divisions are re-aligned, or the Orioles are acquired by an ownership group that is willing to lose lots of money. (I guess a fourth possibility is that the NYYs or Red Sox, or both, will field bad teams over long stretches, but that seems very unlikely to me.)

Otherwise, the teams that compete with teams that have significantly higher revenues (the Orioles, Jays and Rays in the NL East, the Reds, Pirates and Brewers in the NL Central, and the Pads, Rox and D-Backs in the NL West) are not going to contend on a consistent basis. If they make good decisions and have some luck, any of them might have a run of, optimistically, six to eight years of quality teams that are in contention most of those years, and that stretch can include some post-season play and success. That's what I'm hoping for.

On the other hand, going through a total Astros-style rebuild doesn't assure any success, or that the Orioles will play a post-season game while Elias and the prospects now in the MiL or brought in over the next couple of years are still around. 

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Getting to chant Ad-ley, Ad-ley with the now 4-year old at Camden Yards (Nationals Park too, TBH, to the Mrs's dismay) in big games in a few years.

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20 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I think that's unrealistic, unless the structure of player acquisition, retention and compensation is altered significantly in a way that levels the competition among teams with different levels of resources, or the divisions are re-aligned, or the Orioles are acquired by an ownership group that is willing to lose lots of money. (I guess a fourth possibility is that the NYYs or Red Sox, or both, will field bad teams over long stretches, but that seems very unlikely to me.)

Otherwise, the teams that compete with teams that have significantly higher revenues (the Orioles, Jays and Rays in the NL East, the Reds, Pirates and Brewers in the NL Central, and the Pads, Rox and D-Backs in the NL West) are not going to contend on a consistent basis. If they make good decisions and have some luck, any of them might have a run of, optimistically, six to eight years of quality teams that are in contention most of those years, and that stretch can include some post-season play and success. That's what I'm hoping for.

On the other hand, going through a total Astros-style rebuild doesn't assure any success, or that the Orioles will play a post-season game while Elias and the prospects now in the MiL or brought in over the next couple of years are still around. 

Sheesh, you're a buzzkill.

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Having grown up in Baltimore during the 1960's to 1980's run if excellence, I had a sense that every year they would be competitive. I want that, even if too much has to go right that particular year for it to be rational. I want to be run as efficiently as Tampa, but with more resources I want to emulate St. Louis. I want people to talk about the New Oriole Way.

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