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Legend_Of_Joey

What do you want from this rebuild?

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1 minute ago, theocean said:

I get what you're saying, but I think the entire reason people are on board with Elias' plan is that they expect Astros-level success: World Championship and deep playoff appearances.

 

I think it's more than that.  I mentioned it earlier, a lot of us remember how well half measures worked last time.

That being said patience won't be limitless.  If there is nothing encouraging at the ML level this year folks will start getting restless and I would guess folks would expect a team that is at least losing competitive games in 2021.

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7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't feel screwed.  I felt more screwed in the 2000's when they were spending shortsightedly trying to get to .500.

Good answer. A’s like success would be acceptable from when they had their run in the early 2000’s. The playoffs are always a crapshoot. I want to at least see a team built to make the playoffs and whatever happens, happens. 

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The only goal is to win the World Series.  If that isn’t the goal, priorities are messed up.  As someone posted earlier , the playoffs are a crapshoot.  I agree with that.  Just having a goal of being competitive though isn’t right.  It’s only a short term goal.  Play for the ring or don’t play at all.  I was appalled when the Orioles organization went nuts celebrating the last division championhip the following Opening Day.  .  Small potatoes.

Edited by drdelaware

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31 minutes ago, theocean said:

I get what you're saying, but I think the entire reason people are on board with Elias' plan is that they expect Astros-level success: World Championship and deep playoff appearances.

 

Can't happen in Baltimore. Have you ever been to Houston?

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it's more than that.  I mentioned it earlier, a lot of us remember how well half measures worked last time.

That being said patience won't be limitless.  If there is nothing encouraging at the ML level this year folks will start getting restless and I would guess folks would expect a team that is at least losing competitive games in 2021.

I really resist the notion that the only alternative is what the O's did from 1998-2011. Those were just really poorly operated teams with a lot of people in roles they shouldn't have been in to begin with.

There's plenty of different rebuild strategies besides Astroball-tear-it-down-to-the-studs. 

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1 hour ago, weams said:

Can't happen in Baltimore. Have you ever been to Houston?

Yes, I have. I'm not really sure what you mean here, weams. Are you comparing Houston's size to Baltimore's?

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6 minutes ago, theocean said:

Yes, I have. I'm not really sure what you mean here, weams. Are you comparing Houston's size to Baltimore's?

Size. Wealth. Fan enthusiasm. 

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3 minutes ago, weams said:

Size. Wealth. Fan enthusiasm. 

Fan enthusiasm in Houston was less than zero during the rebuild.

I'm sure you know that. But I've seen a lot of posts suggesting Elias should be appeasing fans, which won't happen.

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Just now, 7Mo said:

Fan enthusiasm in Houston was less than zero during the rebuild.

I'm sure you know that. But I've seen a lot of posts suggesting Elias should be appeasing fans, which won't happen.

I agree   But now they are crazed. 

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2 minutes ago, weams said:

I agree   But now they are crazed. 

Yes and that's a reasonable goal for us.

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11 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

We know this is going to be a cold, soulless, "screw the fans" process.

But what is "acceptable" for the end result?

World Series champions?

Playoff contenders every year Elias is here after the "rebuild" is done?

Fighting for first in the East, even if they fall short a few times?

.500 or better and you are happy? 

Anything in between? 

I think the method is the method.  It worked for the Astros.  Perhaps it works for us.  But I don't feel "screwed" at all...this is exactly what I expected the new leadership to do and I am willing to endure the downside to hopefully achieve the upside.  Which I would consider multiple Series appearances and/or at least one World Championship.   Nothing else will satisfy me.  If Elias does not have this by his fifth year, then he will certainly get the boot. 

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3 hours ago, weams said:

Can't happen in Baltimore. Have you ever been to Houston?

Yes, and I prefer Baltimore.    Houston is like LA without the spectacular weather and aspiring actresses.    Just a sprawling mess.   

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World Series winner but along the way I would like:

To have a player brought up that is in contention for Rookie Of the Year, Every Year.

To have a Farm System that is in the top 5 every year.

To not have a single player signed to a contract that extends beyond their 30th birthday that is more than one year in length.

To not keep players beyond their serviceability.  Get rid of them before they start to fail/falter.

Have all trades be to our advantage.

Do not trade Prospects for Rentals.

Unload to reload when players get too expensive.

 

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What do I want from this rebuild?  I want us to develop not just a team, but an organization, one where we have a steady stream of young players to replace the older players who inevitably age and decline in performance or get overpriced.  I don't just want  3-4 years of competing for a spot in the playoffs, but a serious restructuring from single A to the MLB, and making an organizational philosophy that works.  While I I'm not old enough to have lived through the late 60s and 70s teams, I do remember the '79 and '83 teams and World Series appearances and victory in '83.  I remember growing up hearing about the Orioles Way and the magic.  It seems that for much of my adult life we've been kind of a hapless organization.  Even when we were winning under Buck and Dan it didn't appear sustainable as there wasn't a clear plan to put us in a place where we could compete each and every year.  So I completely support this tear it down the bones and rebuild.  I think that's seriously the only way we can become and consistently solid team and organization.  My goals would be by the 2021 season to be seeing improvement in the MLB team due to the young talents players starting to trickle up from the minors, be threatening in '22 with a strong nucleus of top young talent and then be serious contenders in '23 and most seasons thereafter.  Sure, I know we will have a down year here and there, but I echo others that would love us to the Cardinals, consistently good, and often in the playoffs.  Once you get into some short series' anything can happen.  And I'm very willing to see them burn it down and rebuild if that's what it's going to take.  I think Elias is doing it the right way, the proper way, and I expect to see results we can be proud of in a couple of seasons.  

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