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Bundy traded to Angels for Isaac Mattson, Kyle Bradish, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich

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8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Look we can go back and forth all night 

He should have felt some pressure to deal him if he knew he was going to Non tender him. I’ll concede that Perhaps the Angelos sons gave an order to cut payroll further.
 

You don’t know what he was offered anymore than I do. He got a fringe prospect and it’s hard to imagine that he didn’t get offered more. Again, I’ll concede that he might not have known a demand by the ownership group that would prevent him from tendering Villar.

I disagree with the common sense comment. Whatever he was offered at the deadline would clearly no look longer be on the table in the offseason. A deadline deal is for a player that can help you in a playoff run. 
 

True if he knew he was going to nontender Villar at the deadline. I’m not so sure he did! The Orioles payroll has been cut by more than 50%. The could’ve tendered him and didn’t over a few million dollars.

You assume Elias felt no pressure to trade Villar because after the deadline he said he felt no pressure to do so. That's ridiculous. 

If nothing else, Elias is a guy who thinks things through. You said he showed his cards back in September regarding a non tender on Villar but now you are suggesting he didn't know he would have to non tender Villar at the trade deadline absent a trade. You are taking both forks in the road as long as it fits your narrative.

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11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You assume Elias felt no pressure to trade Villar because after the deadline he said he felt no pressure to do so. That's ridiculous. 

If nothing else, Elias is a guy who thinks things through. You said he showed his cards back in September regarding a non tender on Villar but now you are suggesting he didn't know he would have to non tender Villar at the trade deadline absent a trade. You are taking both forks in the road as long as it fits your narrative.

The poster liked Villar very very much. The poster has complete contempt for past present and future Orioles ownership. He is sad, and mad, and has many folks on his side of both those fences. It's difficult to keep fighting the fight as long as the fans don't run the Angelos family out of town and fan favorites are not forced to stay in Baltimore for part of the year. 

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11 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

At the risk of being called a troll again, the point that I don't get with you is the implication that we should have overpaid for Villar just because (in your opinion) the team has money to burn. If you were a multimillionaire and paid twice as much as you thought everything was worth you wouldn't be a multimillionaire for very long. Personal feelings aside, overpaying for a player who's not part of the team's future in a rebuild year would have just been bad business. And before you make the argument about needing to fill seats, Villar wasn't going to significantly move the needed on team wins, and wins (not players) are what fill the seats. 2020 is/was going to suck with or without Villar on the roster. 

You have the right to your opinion. Obviously I can’t change it. The tv contracts and past payroll history says they can afford a payroll of $140 million* which is 20 plus million less ythan their payroll a few seasons ago. 
 

Bad business? The team could afford to pay Villar, Most agree that 10.4 million is very high and he probably gets a number closer to 8

You tender him and hope a  market develops out of need due to injury or underperformance.

But what nontendering really does is prevents them from overtaking the Tigers in the battle for dead last. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

But what nontendering really does is prevents them from overtaking the Tigers in the battle for dead last. 

 

Isn't the goal to have the #1 pick?  

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12 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Nice subtle REM reference. And it is actually about Rockville, MD. Michael Stipe had a female friend who was moving there. 

"(Don't Go Back To) Rockville" is the second and final single released by U.S. rock band R.E.M. from its second studio album Reckoning. The song failed to chart on either the Billboard Hot 100 or the UK Singles Charts.

The song was written by Mike Mills (credited to Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe), in 1980, as a plea to his then girlfriend, Ingrid Schorr, not to return to Rockville, Maryland,[4] where her parents lived.[5][6] Schorr, who later became a journalist, has written about her amusement with the factual inaccuracies about her relationship with Mills and the background of the song that often appear in books about the band.[5] Peter Buck has stated that the song was originally performed in a punk/thrash style, and that it was recorded for this single in its now more-familiar country-inspired arrangement as a joke aimed at R.E.M. manager Bertis Downs.[7]

Over time, Mike Mills has taken over lead vocals instead of Michael Stipe when the band has played the song live. On R.E.M.'s appearance on VH1 Storytellers in 1998, Mills performed the song solo on piano. A live version of the song was released as the B-side to "Leaving New York" in 2004 and on R.E.M. Live in 2007.

Yup - good stuff, I hated that song because I grew up in Rockville, MD, and the song was so negative about it.  My parents still live there, so I do... go back to Rockville fairly often.  Hey, they've stuck together for more than 60 years - the least I can do is show up every now and then and watch a football game with pater and let mater make me lunch.        

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19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You assume Elias felt no pressure to trade Villar because after the deadline he said he felt no pressure to do so. That's ridiculous. 

If nothing else, Elias is a guy who thinks things through. You said he showed his cards back in September regarding a non tender on Villar but now you are suggesting he didn't know he would have to non tender Villar at the trade deadline absent a trade. You are taking both forks in the road as long as it fits your narrative.

So it’s ridiculous .... Why because you said so LOL .... okay 👌 

Did he really think it through? Do you have a direct line to him? You can assume you know how he thinks. But I don’t think that does anything than sell your position. 

Actually... your putting words in my mouth again

I stated the facts in my claim that he blundered the Villar situation. When Frobby asked me for links I provided three different articles where he was interviewed by the Sun. 
 

1) He Felt No Pressure at the deadline as he had no pending free agents. 
 

2) He announced he was nontendering Villar in one of those interviews that happened in September. A poor decision since he was trying to trade a player and get maximum return

3) And he was forced to deal him for a middling prospect just before the deadline to tender or lose him for nothing as a result of not offering him a contract Maybe they had the budget meeting late August or Early September so they could prepare for the offseason. 
 

You couldn’t possibly know unless you work in the warehouse at an executive level.

After that and in your post, I said I’m willing to concede that he may not have known his budget for next year in July. Maybe he was planning to tender him and an ownership set budget changed things. 

It’s a timeline thing ... my assumptions run off the timeline of those interviews, the trade deadline and the deadline to tender a contract. So I’m not taking “both forks in the road” 

What ludicrous accusation is next RZNJ

 

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13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Isn't the goal to have the #1 pick?  

My mistake... the wording in my post was off. It was supposed to tendering does is prevents them from finishing dead last. Villar was a big reason that they didn’t finish worse than the Tigers... not the only reason but a big part.

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15 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

You have the right to your opinion. Obviously I can’t change it. The tv contracts and past payroll history says they can afford a payroll of $140 million* which is 20 plus million less ythan their payroll a few seasons ago. 
 

Bad business? The team could afford to pay Villar, Most agree that 10.4 million is very high and he probably gets a number closer to 8

You tender him and hope a  market develops out of need due to injury or underperformance.

But what nontendering really does is prevents them from overtaking the Tigers in the battle for dead last. 

 

it has nothing to do with what they can / can't afford. That's between the Angelos' and their accountants. But overpaying Villar and banking on being able to trade him, when they weren't able to trade him during his career year, since like a pretty fiscally irresponsible gamble to me. 

I understand your initial frustration, but after a week to still be complaining about the move...I just don't get it. From day 1 Elias laid out how this rebuild was going to go down. And even if it didn't all you had to do is look at how to Astros handled things to get a sense of what we were in for. You knew we were in for a bumpy ride for a few years. Will we lose fans over the next few years? Absolutely. Will they come back when the team starts winning again? Absolutely. 

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35 minutes ago, weams said:

The poster liked Villar very very much. The poster has complete contempt for past present and future Orioles ownership. He is sad, and mad, and has many folks on his side of both those fences. It's difficult to keep fighting the fight as long as the fans don't run the Angelos family out of town and fan favorites are not forced to stay in Baltimore for part of the year. 

It’s not about liking Villar or even hating the Angelos family. It was how the situation was handled by Elias from mid July to now. 
 

As you mentioned I did like Villar. I would have been happy with an extension. I expected a tender as the logical thing to do with your 4 WAR player in his prime to protect your property.

I accepted a trade as a logical part of the rebuilding process for a return that helps the team in the future. The path the process went down diminished the return and the return was severely low. 
 

No sense rehashing my stated facts about the process by which I’ve drawn my conclusions. 
 


 

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38 minutes ago, weams said:

The poster liked Villar very very much. The poster has complete contempt for past present and future Orioles ownership. He is sad, and mad, and has many folks on his side of both those fences. It's difficult to keep fighting the fight as long as the fans don't run the Angelos family out of town and fan favorites are not forced to stay in Baltimore for part of the year. 

I get it Weams, but he really needs a time out. This has escalated from his frustration over the team releasing Villar to him pushing a ridiculously false narrative about Elias basically being an idiot. It's the very definition of irresponsible posting. 

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2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So it’s ridiculous .... Why because you said so LOL .... okay 👌 

Did he really think it through? Do you have a direct line to him? You can assume you know how he thinks. But I don’t think that does anything than sell your position. 

Actually... your putting words in my mouth again

I stated the facts in my claim that he blundered the Villar situation. When Frobby asked me for links I provided three different articles where he was interviewed by the Sun. 
 

1) He Felt No Pressure at the deadline as he had no pending free agents. 
 

2) He announced he was nontendering Villar in one of those interviews that happened in September. A poor decision since he was trying to trade a player and get maximum return

3) And he was forced to deal him for a middling prospect just before the deadline to tender or lose him for nothing as a result of not offering him a contract Maybe they had the budget meeting late August or Early September so they could prepare for the offseason. 
 

You couldn’t possibly know unless you work in the warehouse at an executive level.

After that and in your post, I said I’m willing to concede that he may not have known his budget for next year in July. Maybe he was planning to tender him and an ownership set budget changed things. 

It’s a timeline thing ... my assumptions run off the timeline of those interviews, the trade deadline and the deadline to tender a contract. So I’m not taking “both forks in the road” 

What ludicrous accusation is next RZNJ

 

1) I still have not seen the quote where he said he was not tendering Villar back in September. It's not that important except you keep insisting he did and I see no such quote.  The only quote I noticed was where he said he felt no pressure to trade him which is GM speak for "I don't intend to give him away".  Unfortunately, there was never a market for Villar and he eventually got very little. 

2) You keep telling me I'm making assumptions but that is exactly what you are doing. You are assuming some team offered something decent at the deadline. My common sense tells me if that was the case, Villar would have been dealt. You prefer to assume Elias didn't know he would later non tender Villar, if it came to that.  

I don't work in the Warehouse and neither do you. The difference is you have all of these theories regarding the budget discussed in September and that's when Elias first realized he was under pressure to deal Villar.  I am using common sense. Try it.

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This is a Bundy thread, I do not think we need to re-hash the 69 pages that were already used for that purpose of the Villar Non-tender, cut , release , trade, whatever.

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Just now, thezeroes said:

This is a Bundy thread, I do not think we need to re-hash the 69 pages that were already used for that purpose of the Villar Non-tender, cut , release , trade, whatever.

A frickin men (claps hands and walks away from the poker table)

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1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

This is a Bundy thread, I do not think we need to re-hash the 69 pages that were already used for that purpose of the Villar Non-tender, cut , release , trade, whatever.

Safe bet that if any thread here makes it this long, it's way off topic.  I'm surprised that we're not talking about Jeffery Maier in here, actually.

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