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Bundy traded to Angels for Isaac Mattson, Kyle Bradish, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich

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2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Safe bet that if any thread here makes it this long, it's way off topic.  I'm surprised that we're not talking about Jeffery Maier in here, actually.

From what I've read the last week, my guess is Elias told Maier to do it. 

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6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

it has nothing to do with what they can / can't afford. That's between the Angelos' and their accountants. But overpaying Villar and banking on being able to trade him, when they weren't able to trade him during his career year, since like a pretty fiscally irresponsible gamble to me. 

I understand your initial frustration, but after a week to still be complaining about the move...I just don't get it. From day 1 Elias laid out how this rebuild was going to go down. And even if it didn't all you had to do is look at how to Astros handled things to get a sense of what we were in for. You knew we were in for a bumpy ride for a few years. Will we lose fans over the next few years? Absolutely. Will they come back when the team starts winning again? Absolutely. 

Bill he was a 4 WAR player that you were likely going to give a 3 million dollar raise.
 

Fiscally irresponsible ??? It’s not a Davis’ contract that the Angelos family and their accountant  negotiated against themselves to give him $164 million dollars or against themselves to give Trumbo a 3 year deal for way too much.

It was a one year deal for a modest raise to prolong the effort of dealing one of your most valuable trade chips

Look ... I’m done with this Bill! If you want to sip the Orange Koolaid and make excuses for the Angelos family go ahead. If you believe they deserve the benefit of the doubt fine. I don’t ... The Villar move was stinky cheap. The majority of national media people and some of the experts here voiced dissatisfaction over it. 
 

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2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok So ... Here is were you are completely wrong. Villar was never put on waivers. It was a false rumor.

But a repeatedly published one.   So, regardless of what Elias might have said previously, that rumor (which presumably didn’t come from Elias) certainly told all 30 GM’s that if they had a bid to make on Villar, they should do it.     

I really didn’t think the earlier interview stuff you quoted at length the other day made it clear Villar would be non-tendered.     If it had, the OH would have been obsessing about it back then.    But crickets.   
 

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14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

1) I still have not seen the quote where he said he was not tendering Villar back in September. It's not that important except you keep insisting he did and I see no such quote.  The only quote I noticed was where he said he felt no pressure to trade him which is GM speak for "I don't intend to give him away".  Unfortunately, there was never a market for Villar and he eventually got very little. 

2) You keep telling me I'm making assumptions but that is exactly what you are doing. You are assuming some team offered something decent at the deadline. My common sense tells me if that was the case, Villar would have been dealt. You prefer to assume Elias didn't know he would later non tender Villar, if it came to that.  

I don't work in the Warehouse and neither do you. The difference is you have all of these theories regarding the budget discussed in September and that's when Elias first realized he was under pressure to deal Villar.  I am using common sense. Try it.

1) Then you haven’t gone to the Villar trade thread and looked through the last few pages. Do so, I assure you it’s there!

Add “because no one else is a pending free agent” to your partial quote.

“trade him which is GM speak for "I don't intend to give him away".  Unfortunately, there was never a market for Villar and he eventually got very little. “

This quote is just your opinion base on no material fact. 
 

I have no idea what he was offered at the deadline. We can agree on that. He obviously didn’t like what he was offered enough to deal. 
 

Was it more than he settled for Monday. We don’t know and probably never will! My common sense tells me he probably was offered more. Your says he wasn’t.  We agree to disagree.

I’m saying I don’t know when the budget for 2020 was discussed. I am just using Elias’ quotes to work through the timeline. 
 

All you have is smart ass comments about your common sense. And I should try using some! 
 

Buzz Off!

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13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

But a repeatedly published one.   So, regardless of what Elias might have said previously, that rumor (which presumably didn’t come from Elias) certainly told all 30 GM’s that if they had a bid to make on Villar, they should do it.     

I really didn’t think the earlier interview stuff you quoted at length the other day made it clear Villar would be non-tendered.     If it had, the OH would have been obsessing about it back then.    But crickets.   
 

Noted ... Thanks

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3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

1) Then you haven’t gone to the Villar trade thread and looked through the last few pages. Do so, I assure you it’s there!

Add “because no one else is a pending free agent” to your partial quote.

“trade him which is GM speak for "I don't intend to give him away".  Unfortunately, there was never a market for Villar and he eventually got very little. “

This quote is just your opinion base on no material fact. 
 

I have no idea what he was offered at the deadline. We can agree on that. He obviously didn’t like what he was offered enough to deal. 
 

Was it more than he settled for Monday. We don’t know and probably never will! My common sense tells me he probably was offered more. Your says he wasn’t.  We agree to disagree.

I’m saying I don’t know when the budget for 2020 was discussed. I am just using Elias’ quotes to work through the timeline. 
 

All you have is smart ass comments about your common sense. And I should try using some! 
 

Buzz Off!

Now. Now. You have been pushing this quote, your version of proof, that Elias said he was non tendering Villar back in September. All you did was read into something he said and ASSUME what you wanted it to mean.  Even Frobby, as impartial as they come, says the quotes you provided don't make it clear. 

I have said it's possible Elias was offered a bit more at the deadline. Anything of real substance and Villar would have been moved.  Elias quotes on that are more clear than your non tender non story.

You may be a negotiator but you're no detective.  Bzzzzzzzzz.

 

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41 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I get it Weams, but he really needs a time out. This has escalated from his frustration over the team releasing Villar to him pushing a ridiculously false narrative about Elias basically being an idiot. It's the very definition of irresponsible posting. 

No one is getting a time out but the subject is war torn at this point. I'd recommend cooling the whole back and forth at this point. 

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4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I have said it's possible Elias was offered a bit more at the deadline. Anything of real substance and Villar would have been moved.  

Elias did say this the other day — pardon me if this quote already appears in this thread:

“Certainly, we’re pleased with where it landed. We had listened on him in the past, last trade deadline, but nothing came our way and we were the beneficiaries of a huge second half that he had last year and he really had a great August and kept our team rolling down the stretch. We’re going to miss him, but this was the right move for us on a number of levels.”   https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-trade-tenders-and-more.html

That certainly doesn’t sound as if he got a better offer (or any offer, really) previously.    Of course, he could be spinning, but I tend to believe what Elias says unless given a reason to think otherwise.

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Elias did say this the other day — pardon me if this quote already appears in this thread:

“Certainly, we’re pleased with where it landed. We had listened on him in the past, last trade deadline, but nothing came our way and we were the beneficiaries of a huge second half that he had last year and he really had a great August and kept our team rolling down the stretch. We’re going to miss him, but this was the right move for us on a number of levels.”   https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-trade-tenders-and-more.html

That certainly doesn’t sound as if he got a better offer (or any offer, really) previously.    Of course, he could be spinning, but I tend to believe what Elias says unless given a reason to think otherwise.

From what we've seen so far, Elias appears to be very transparent with his quotes. 

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2 hours ago, atomic said:

We should move our triple A team to Rockville. 

Riiiiiight, because everyone loves hitting the 495 beltway or maneuvering through Montgomery county between 5 and 7 during the week.

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Now Rolltide can go back to how Elias bungled it by publicly announcing, in September, that he would non tender Villar in December. Unfortunately, that quote only appears in his imagination to which no one else has access.  Bzzzzzz.

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56 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

This is a Bundy thread, I do not think we need to re-hash the 69 pages that were already used for that purpose of the Villar Non-tender, cut , release , trade, whatever.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please do not let other thread discussions seep into other ones. 

Besides, I think it's very clear what everyone thinks about the Villar trade, no one is going to change their minds at this point.

Once the Villar trade happened, it made sense to trade Bundy and the return brought in a quantity of arms that have some potential, particularly with Peek if all the reports are right. 

Givens is probably next and Mancini won't be far behind though "Far behind could be next year offseason."

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12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Now Rolltide can go back to how Elias bungled it by publicly announcing, in September, that he would non tender Villar in December. Unfortunately, that quote only appears in his imagination to which no one else has access.  Bzzzzzz.

Don't troll. This brings nothing to the board. You've made this point so making a whole other post just to say this again is literally the definition of trolling which is not allowed on our site.

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Bundy made a transition last year.   He accepted the fact that he had permanently lost velocity on his fastball and would have to learn to rely on his offspeed pitches more, and he made that adjustment.   It was nice to watch.   He no longer will over be overpowering.   The pitcher I saw last year could gut his way through an effective 6 innings if he hit his spots, and could be pretty bad if he didn't.   The result was a reduction of HRs allowed from 41 to 29.   In fact, his HR rate, his ERA, his WHIP, and his hit rate all improved as he made this adjustment.   His walks went up a bit and his strikeouts went down a bit, though.

I guess the big quesiton is will he be able to sustain what he did last year and be that kind of pitcher, relying on location and guile more than an overpowering out pitch, moving forward.   If he is he could last a long time in the majors.   Maybe in two years we'll be ready to contend and need a savvy veteran to be a back end starter in our rotation full of young studs and he will be available as a free agent.

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2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Riiiiiight, because everyone loves hitting the 495 beltway or maneuvering through Montgomery county between 5 and 7 during the week.

Not an REM fan I guess.  But just think if our triple A Team was in Rockville we could tell Mountcastle: “Don’t go back to Rockville ... and waste another year.”

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