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Bundy traded to Angels for Isaac Mattson, Kyle Bradish, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich

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15 hours ago, 7Mo said:

Eppler said almost exactly what you're saying here.

Quite frankly, you give up players you just recently drafted, that can go in a number of directions.”

From an O’s fan point of view, I really like this quote. 

That’s the Angels GM telling us right there that this type of deal is a little risky for the trading club. 

Let’s say they would have given us their #4 prospect in AA with a 50 value. Well that player is so heavily scouted, and there’s such a book on him, that team’s pretty much know what they’re giving up. By getting these recent draftees, we’re getting guys that have a little bit of an unknown ceiling because there are question marks. 

I like Elias’ strategy. It shows me that they must have really dug into the 2019 draft to know this much about a lot of players. What else did they have to do?  Also, I like that he’s trusting his “system” and targeting guys that fit that system. 

Plans fail, like others have said, but at least we know Elias has one. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 4:18 PM, Enjoy Terror said:

That seals the deal. I am no longer an Orioles fan. I’ve been a fan since 1982 and a season ticket holder since 1996. I officially will not be renewing my plan next season nor will I watch on tv ever again. Elias is officially the worst gm in history.

Obviously you are joking here. But I'd be willing to bet that likelihood of any fan taking that stance over Bundy is low. But even lower for a person that posts or even frequents a site like this.

A rare occurrence does happen. I remember @JTrea81 talking of walking away over Angelos and something that was going on.

I believe he blew a gasket and may have even been banned for a while. 

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Elias on the trade process:

“It was vastly different for a while, and then we kind of boiled it down to the two or three teams at the end that were the most serious and really treating him with the type of evaluation that we feel he deserved,” Elias said.

“There were similar offers from a couple other clubs. We just liked these guys better, the Angels’ names better.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/solid-statuses-for-wynns-and-wojciechowski-heading-into-spring.html

Seems like Elias had a good process here.

 

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9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Elias on the trade process:

“It was vastly different for a while, and then we kind of boiled it down to the two or three teams at the end that were the most serious and really treating him with the type of evaluation that we feel he deserved,” Elias said.

“There were similar offers from a couple other clubs. We just liked these guys better, the Angels’ names better.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/solid-statuses-for-wynns-and-wojciechowski-heading-into-spring.html

Seems like Elias had a good process here.

 

I heard the clips on the radio this morning. I’m fine with the process and it seems like the deal progressed fairly quick.

I would have been interested in the question of why quantity over quality. Obviously they didn’t play the whole show so maybe it was asked. 
 

I don’t mind the deal as much as some here. But I would have preferred a player less with a more prestigious main player.

But it’s mainly stating a preference for conversation as I really think it was a decent trade.

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48 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I heard the clips on the radio this morning. I’m fine with the process and it seems like the deal progressed fairly quick.

I would have been interested in the question of why quantity over quality. Obviously they didn’t play the whole show so maybe it was asked. 
 

I don’t mind the deal as much as some here. But I would have preferred a player less with a more prestigious main player.

But it’s mainly stating a preference for conversation as I really think it was a decent trade.

This all assumes that quality was a choice.

I think the notion that GM's get to pick more players over a smaller amount of better ones in trades is the stuff of baseball fan message board fantasy land.  

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1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

Added Fangraphs' take on the trade to the opening post. Thanks to @CharmCityHokie for posting it in another thread.

Quote

Bundy would reach the majors later that year, however briefly, before a rash of injuries would prevent him from pitching in Baltimore again until 2016. It was an ironic twist in what is perhaps this decade’s greatest baseball “what if?” career, because when the Orioles drafted Bundy in 2011, they asked him to scrap his dominant cutter in order to keep him healthy. This was the equivalent of baseball pseudoscience, an old wives’ tale. We were still in the dark ages of player development, and perhaps no dungeon was more medieval than Baltimore’s.

Perhaps no finer sentence in the English language has ever been crafted.  This is gold.

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Elias on the trade process:

“It was vastly different for a while, and then we kind of boiled it down to the two or three teams at the end that were the most serious and really treating him with the type of evaluation that we feel he deserved,” Elias said.

“There were similar offers from a couple other clubs. We just liked these guys better, the Angels’ names better.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/solid-statuses-for-wynns-and-wojciechowski-heading-into-spring.html

Seems like Elias had a good process here.

 

Oh nos!!! He's trading based on baseball players names!!!

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

From an O’s fan point of view, I really like this quote. 

That’s the Angels GM telling us right there that this type of deal is a little risky for the trading club. 

Let’s say they would have given us their #4 prospect in AA with a 50 value. Well that player is so heavily scouted, and there’s such a book on him, that team’s pretty much know what they’re giving up. By getting these recent draftees, we’re getting guys that have a little bit of an unknown ceiling because there are question marks. 

I like Elias’ strategy. It shows me that they must have really dug into the 2019 draft to know this much about a lot of players. What else did they have to do?  Also, I like that he’s trusting his “system” and targeting guys that fit that system. 

Plans fail, like others have said, but at least we know Elias has one. 

What I find interesting here is that this is being considered quantity over quality.  I get that it might very well be, but what if the O's saw the A's #4 and thought that 2 of the guys they got could eventually be a higher value.  Even if they were only right on one the trade from the O's view would be similar with a potential for more.  It's these types of things we won't know for years and I'd imagine Elias/Medjal is trying to find ways to do make these types our trades where the #30/32/40/48 (or whatever) have better careers combined overall vs the #4/20.  It's a risk, but an interesting approach overall.  Maybe there is more to it, but that's how I've been looking at it.

Another thought that includes our quest to save money.  Elias got 2 2019 picks that were given decent bonuses (I think someone posted 200k and 275k or so).  The Angels paid that bonus and now the O's have them for a minor league salary.  It's kind of like adding to our draft budget and number of picks without cash payment (we paid with a Bundy...). 

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3 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

Another thought that includes our quest to save money.  Elias got 2 2019 picks that were given decent bonuses (I think someone posted 200k and 275k or so).  The Angels paid that bonus and now the O's have them for a minor league salary.  It's kind of like adding to our draft budget and number of picks without cash payment (we paid with a Bundy...). 

Bonuses are in the first post of the thread.

Quote

Bradish was a 2018 4th round pick out of New Mexico State (same school as Joey Ortiz) who signed for $397,500 (60-ish K under slot value of $455,700).

Bradish did not pitch in 2018 and started 2019 in the California League (A+) which is fairly aggressive for a college draftee in his first full season, especially one who didn't get his feet wet the previous season. He stayed there the whole season, making 18 starts and 6 relief appearances, pitching to a 4.28 ERA over 101 innings with a K/9 of 10.7 and a BB/9 of 4.7

Peek was a 2019 6th round pick out of Winthrop, who signed for $267,800 (slot was $260,100). Fangraphs had him as the 181st best prospect in the draft. He did not pitch in the 2019 minor league season.

Brnovich was a 2019 8th round pick out of Elon, who signed for $168,700 (slot was $164,700). BA had him as the 107th best prospect in the draft, Fangraphs had him as the 241st best prospect. He did not pitch in the 2019 minor league season.

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3 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Bonuses are in the first post of the thread.

Cool, thanks.  Although not too far off, coming from a fragile memory ;)

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21 hours ago, interloper said:

100%. It was absolutely necessary. It also shows the weakness of our farm system. But I think Dan is very smart and just doesn't communicate with details like Elias. I think Dan assumed fans were pretty dumb based on how he communicated haha.

I don't think he thought anyone else was "dumb."  I think he was just a little awkward in how he presented himself.  Brooks was not a very good broadcaster when he started and got better with time.  Johnny Unitas had to take the Dale Carnegie course just to be able to speak well in public.  Duquette was just a bit of an odd duck when it came to interacting with the public.

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31 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

It's these types of things we won't know for years and I'd imagine Elias/Medjal is trying to find ways to do make these types our trades where the #30/32/40/48 (or whatever) have better careers combined overall vs the #4/20.  It's a risk, but an interesting approach overall.  Maybe there is more to it, but that's how I've been looking at it.

Agreed and it could also be as simple as the Angels viewed their guys differently than we did. Maybe we like what they call their #30 better than the guy they call their #20.

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2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

This all assumes that quality was a choice.

I think the notion that GM's get to pick more players over a smaller amount of better ones in trades is the stuff of baseball fan message board fantasy land.  

Based on the Angels GM's comments after the trade, it looks like both possibilities were on the table, quantity and quality. Hopefully we got both.

Quote

“If their approach was quantity, we were open to that. If their approach would have been one player and aiming somewhere different, we would have entertained that too. We kind of worked through the deal and this was ultimately where it went.

 

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5 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

He thinks player development can create quality from certain raw attributes. So he grabs as many with those attributes as possible.

It's hard to argue against that strategy. And honestly, if we truly are 2-3 years away from a turnaround doesn't it make sense to target lower level prospects that need some more seasoning (i.e. quantity over quality) in most cases than a "prestigious main player" as some have suggested? What's the point in trading for a MLB ready minor leaguer if the team isn't ready? 

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