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interloper

My prediction for how the Davis saga ends

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2 hours ago, interloper said:

 it makes it seem like Peter still has a good deal of pull behind the scenes

The only part I took issue with. I don't think Peter is well. I believe he is 100% out of the picture due to his health.

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10 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

The only part I took issue with. I don't think Peter is well. I believe he is 100% out of the picture due to his health.

Could very well be, but that's kind of why I said "makes it seem". What I'm really saying is it gives critics that ammo. 

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25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m beyond guessing what will happen with Davis.    I do think that the pressure to release him ratchets up significantly when the O’s are ready to promote Mountcastle.  

I hear that. I spend a lot of time thinking about the Davis thing admittedly haha. Once Elias was in and started doing his thing, it really relieved a lot of my angst about Davis and now I just kind of think the whole thing is fascinating. I'm over it, basically, but I think it would be great to end it amicably with some kind of positivity tied to it, however little. 

Also just wanted to get a detailed prediction on paper (screen?) and see what, if anything, comes to pass. I think there's a little bit of an offramp Davis and the O's can take on this and I hope they do. 

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1 hour ago, interloper said:

Fair points and I totally get not wanting to be reminded of the guy. But I think after a few years without him around, no one will really have any reason to resent the guy. Stuff happens, you know? He's a good dude, I would be totally fine with him being involved with the O's in some small capacity. And I think we'd all feel better about him knowing he was using a portion of that remaining salary for something good. At least I would. 

Restructuring the contract would indeed be the biggest stretch of my prediction. However, it has been done. Cespedes restructured his contract as recently as this offseason (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/mlb/mets/2019/12/13/yoenis-cespedes-contract-mets-reach-restructure-agreement-2020/2641291001/), although that's mostly due to injuries. 

Response to the bolded part. 

There are a lot of people who have harsh feelings towards Cal Ripken, the most famous and arguably most accomplished Oriole ever, for his "Sorry Brooksie" comment in the 2012 Wild Card game. I would suspect if it's possible that some fans turned on the all-time face of the franchise savior of baseball folk hero, that there will always be people who resent the overpaid first baseman who got himself suspended during the team's best run in almost twenty years and whose effort and work ethic was at times questionable. 

Saying that, unless we can unleash the Cespedes boar, this could be the best chance to get him off the team and the charitable aspect would be very cool. 

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2 minutes ago, Darkhawk said:

Response to the bolded part. 

There are a lot of people who have harsh feelings towards Cal Ripken, the most famous and arguably most accomplished Oriole ever, for his "Sorry Brooksie" comment in the 2012 Wild Card game. I would suspect if it's possible that some fans turned on the all-time face of the franchise savior of baseball folk hero, that there will always be people who resent the overpaid first baseman who got himself suspended during the team's best run in almost twenty years and whose effort and work ethic was at times questionable. 

Saying that, unless we can unleash the Cespedes boar, this could be the best chance to get him off the team and the charitable aspect would be very cool. 

Oh, for sure. There will always be those people. To me it just seems like you'd really have to stretch to hate the guy in 2026 or whatever. I think having him off the roster immediately helps the average fan feel better about him because he's no longer a negative weight on your mind whenever you watch the game. 

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4 minutes ago, interloper said:

Oh, for sure. There will always be those people. To me it just seems like you'd really have to stretch to hate the guy in 2026 or whatever. I think having him off the roster immediately helps the average fan feel better about him because he's no longer a negative weight on your mind whenever you watch the game. 

How many folks still hold a grudge against Mussina (2001)?

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

How many folks still hold a grudge against Mussina (2001)?

Ok, but those folks (not me) would argue that Mussina snubbed us purposefully. I wager most fans are more resentful of Angelos for that than Mussina. It also involved the Yankees. That can't be understated.

Davis, I guess you could argue the PED thing was a willful f-up worthy of taking personally as a fan. I personally don't really buy that, but I understand those who do. But to me the majority of it is just bad luck. It's bad luck that he declined as badly as he did. I don't fault him for that. Stuff happens. There's not a lot of reason to be mad at Davis. To do so I think is a bit of a stretch. 

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1 hour ago, interloper said:

When did I say "face of the franchise"? That's not what I was saying at all. He'd have a moment of visibility/press when it kicked off, and then he'd probably be less visible than all of the rest of the current Community Ambassadors save for Eddie who we don't see that often. Show up at the odd event or charity ribbon-cutting, that's basically it. Create a role for him, sure, but I'm not saying parade him around like he's Mr. Oriole. 

Working for the team in a public relations capacity = face of the franchise.  The franchise would be putting him forward to represent them.  Notice I said a face of the franchise, not the face of the franchise.

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Just now, interloper said:

Ok, but those folks (not me) would argue that Mussina snubbed us purposefully. I wager most fans are more resentful of Angelos for that than Mussina. It also involved the Yankees. That can't be understated.

Davis, I guess you could argue the PED thing was a willful f-up worthy of taking personally as a fan. I personally don't really buy that, but I understand those who do. But to me the majority of it is just bad luck. It's bad luck that he declined as badly as he did. I don't fault him for that. Stuff happens. There's not a lot of reason to be mad at Davis. To do so I think is a bit of a stretch. 

I don't hate Davis, I don't hold a grudge, but I certainly think part of his decline lays at his own feet.  We know he's been resistant to change his approach and that he lied about his offseason meetings with Coolbaugh.  We can speculate that he doesn't seem to be the same physical specimen he was when he was younger.

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Working for the team in a public relations capacity = face of the franchise.  The franchise would be putting him forward to represent them.  Notice I said a face of the franchise, not the face of the franchise.

Ok. I guess. I don't know. To me there's a clear distinction between Brooks Robinson, Community Ambassador and Brian Roberts, Community Ambassador. I think Davis could slide in with B-Rob, who, we should mention, also had his own run-in with PEDs. And we see a lot of Roberts these days on MASN. We'd see much, much, much less of Davis in this theoretical role. 

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1 hour ago, interloper said:

Right. My whole OP hinges on the fact that Davis comes to terms with the fact that he's done. Given that, his options are retire and leave money on the table, mope and get released and do nothing but collect a check, or collect most of that money but do something productive and noteworthy. 

If he goes to Boras and says he's done and wants to move some of that salary off the books and onto charities, why would Boras stop him?

On the subject of “restructuring” of course Davis can do whatever he wishes, and his contract and his money. My point is that if he attempts to do that, or if he agrees with something that would have him making less, the agents and players will see that as a threat and will pressure him not to do so. I am reminded of Bud Norris’ reaction to the Jon Singleton contract, Which was extremely negative and yet that contract turned out to be the best thing Singleton could possibly have done for himself.

Yes it is Davis’ choice, of course no one denies that, But if something like that is discussed there will be pressure from both sides.

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8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't hate Davis, I don't hold a grudge, but I certainly think part of his decline lays at his own feet.  We know he's been resistant to change his approach and that he lied about his offseason meetings with Coolbaugh.  We can speculate that he doesn't seem to be the same physical specimen he was when he was younger.

I definitely understand this take. You can find some pretty good rants from me about his unwillingness to change on this very board. I don't know how much he would have been able to mitigate with drastic approach changes. He seems to have slimmed down on purpose, so he says. You won't find much argument from me if you're taking that with an enormous grain of salt. 

I think the overwhelming majority of his recent failures are just that the baseball gods have decided he ain't got it any more. It does happen, and it does make you question everything when it's this drastic, but this is kind of my whole point... nothing he did warrants an outright banishment from the annals of Oriole time. He's not Raffy, just to pick a controversial guy off the top of my head. It's a lot of subjectivity involved in whether or not you feel like Davis did things wrong. To me, going out the right way could erase a lot of that for some folks. Not everybody. 

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Just now, Philip said:

On the subject of “restructuring” of course Davis can do whatever he wishes, and his contract and his money. My point is that if he attempts to do that, or if he agrees with something that would have him making less, the agents and players will see that as a threat and will pressure him not to do so. I am reminded of Bud Norris’ reaction to the Jon Singleton contract, Which was extremely negative and yet that contract turned out to be the best thing Singleton could possibly have done for himself.

Yes it is Davis’ choice, of course no one denies that, But if something like that is discussed there will be pressure from both sides.

If you believe that you should avoid saying things like " No player of agent in baseball  is going to allow".  When folks use language like that it certainly sounds as if they think the player doesn't have the ability to make their own decisions.  I see it a lot when folks are talking about Boras clients.

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1 hour ago, interloper said:

If he goes to Boras and says he's done and wants to move some of that salary off the books and onto charities, why would Boras stop him?

The amount of money will be the same, the only difference would be the Destiination. The team will still be spending 161 large, the only difference is that some of that would go to whatever Davis and the team were to agree upon. And if Davis wants to donate a bunch of money to charity he doesn’t need the team to do it or re-structuring the contract to do it he can do it himself. 

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1 minute ago, interloper said:

I definitely understand this take. You can find some pretty good rants from me about his unwillingness to change on this very board. I don't know how much he would have been able to mitigate with drastic approach changes. He seems to have slimmed down on purpose, so he says. You won't find much argument from me if you're taking that with an enormous grain of salt. 

I think the overwhelming majority of his recent failures are just that the baseball gods have decided he ain't got it any more. It does happen, and it does make you question everything when it's this drastic, but this is kind of my whole point... nothing he did warrants an outright banishment from the annals of Oriole time. He's not Raffy, just to pick a controversial guy off the top of my head. It's a lot of subjectivity involved in whether or not you feel like Davis did things wrong. To me, going out the right way could erase a lot of that for some folks. Not everybody. 

I said he could come back for the 2032 reunion.  😉

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