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Should we go after Andrew Cashner?

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16 minutes ago, murph said:

Why not?   This year doesn’t matter. Need innings eaten. Might get a young international (or two!) prospect at the deadline if Andrew has a lucky first half again. 

Cause I hate watching him pitch?  

And "innings eaten" is a myth.  Dude hardly makes it past the 5th, barely makes it into the 6th.  Has never cracked 200 innings, hasn't come particularly close since his career high in innings which he achieved in 2015.  Would be hard pressed to get 150 innings out of him, 175 innings would be amazing.  He'd be part of the reason the bullpen is blown out and depleted by June.  

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7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause I hate watching him pitch?  

And "innings eaten" is a myth.  Dude hardly makes it past the 5th, barely makes it into the 6th.  Has never cracked 200 innings, hasn't come particularly close since his career high in innings which he achieved in 2015.  Would be hard pressed to get 150 innings out of him, 175 innings would be amazing.  He'd be part of the reason the bullpen is blown out and depleted by June.  

We need “quality” innings form someone.  Cashner gave us that for half a season.   What makes you think, I think a 5 inning average is not an innings eater on the 2020 Orioles?   
 

I think the bullpen will be depleted by June with or without him. 
 

Don’t really care either way.   But definitely think, why not? 

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7 minutes ago, murph said:

We need “quality” innings form someone.  Cashner gave us that for half a season.   What makes you think, I think a 5 inning average is not an innings eater on the 2020 Orioles?   
 

I think the bullpen will be depleted by June with or without him. 
 

Don’t really care either way.   But definitely think, why not? 

I'd rather see it from someone else.  As I said, I hate watching him pitch.  I will grant you that he wasn't that bad last year, Brocail seems to have some kind of positive impact on him.  Maybe that's real, maybe that's a coincidence. 

I disagree with your earlier statement that this year doesn't matter.  It matters a lot.  This is the year where some of the guys in the minors need to step up and make a name for themselves at the big league level.  That they can be a part of the next winning team in Baltimore.  

Cashner sort of gets in the way of that.  And if you're bringing him back with an eye on trading him again halfway through the summer for organizational filler...I'm not sure why you work to sign him in the first place.  I don't see how he fits in any capacity, really.   If you're saying he holds down a rotation spot until Akin or Kremer is ready...fine, I guess.  

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46 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause I hate watching him pitch?  

And "innings eaten" is a myth.  Dude hardly makes it past the 5th, barely makes it into the 6th.  Has never cracked 200 innings, hasn't come particularly close since his career high in innings which he achieved in 2015.  Would be hard pressed to get 150 innings out of him, 175 innings would be amazing.  He'd be part of the reason the bullpen is blown out and depleted by June.  

You hate watching him pitch more than some scrub they'll get off waivers?

Looking at the Orioles system, I do not see anyone he'd be realistically blocking for the first half of the year. He'll be affordable and he'll help Hyde actually be able to put some of the young guys in spots where they can succeed. Given Cobb's injury history, analytical consensus that Means will absolutely regress in 2020, and the loss of Bundy - this team needs a veteran who can get them to the 5th inning.

It's not sexy. But, a Cashner-type guy is exactly what this not-sexy team needs. Elias has to give Hyde something to work with.

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Just now, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

You hate watching him pitch more than some scrub they'll get off waivers?

Looking at the Orioles system, I do not see anyone he'd be realistically blocking for the first half of the year. He'll be affordable and he'll help Hyde actually be able to put some of the young guys in spots where they can succeed. Given Cobb's injury history, analytical consensus that Means will absolutely regress in 2020, and the loss of Bundy - this team needs a veteran who can get them to the 5th inning.

It's not sexy. But, a Cashner-type guy is exactly what this not-sexy team needs. Elias has to give Hyde something to work with.

I don't hate watching him any more than some scrub that they'd get off waivers.

So go get a scrub off waivers.  

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1 hour ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

You hate watching him pitch more than some scrub they'll get off waivers

Actually, I don’t mind at all giving a chance to scrubs. I HATE giving four year chances to Mike Wright and his ilk, but I’m happy to give opportunities to guys who might have something to offer. Not long ones, mind you, but a chance.

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Just now, Philip said:

Actually, I don’t mind at all giving a chance to scrubs. I HATE giving four year chances to Mike Wright and his ilk, but I’m happy to give opportunities to guys who might have something to offer. Not long ones, mind you, but a chance.

I'd prefer it, too, honestly.  Like I'm not thrilled about having to get scrubs to pitch...but, IMO, Cashner is a scrub.  He's just a scrub with name recognition.  Maybe with some quad A type, you get a guy who could be a pleasant surprise.  

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1 minute ago, Philip said:

Actually, I don’t mind at all giving a chance to scrubs. I HATE giving four year chances to Mike Wright and his ilk, but I’m happy to give opportunities to guys who might have something to offer. Not long ones, mind you, but a chance.

So some other team's Mike Wright is better than the one they already have?

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9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So some other team's Mike Wright is better than the one they already have?

It's possible.  Maybe you get a guy who needed a change of scenery or needed to be with the right coach.  

Except Mike Wright, he was going to be terrible wherever he went.

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10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So some other team's Mike Wright is better than the one they already have?

Well, yeah, because there's the potential that our methods coax more out of the player. With Mike Wright, we know our methods aren't working, it's a closed case. There's always more opportunity with another team's player. 

Shawn Armstrong is a great example. He was Seattle's Mike Wright. He comes here and, yeah, doesn't set the world on fire, but we certainly got more out of him than Seattle has. He's analytics-friendly and he confirmed exactly what Luke hoped he'd work on in the offseason. Career high K-rate as an Oriole and a 4.28 FIP. 

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11 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'd prefer it, too, honestly.  Like I'm not thrilled about having to get scrubs to pitch...but, IMO, Cashner is a scrub.  He's just a scrub with name recognition.  Maybe with some quad A type, you get a guy who could be a pleasant surprise.  

Unfair to call him a scrub. The O's actually started plenty of scrubs last year:

Sean Gilmartin: 1 GS / 2.1 IP / 19.29 ERA / 3.857 WHIP

Yefry Ramirez: 1 GS / 10.1 IP / 6.97 ERA / 1.935 WHIP

Chandler Shepherd: 3 GS / 19 IP / 6.63 ERA / 1.526 WHIP

Tom Eshelman: 4 GS / 36 IP / 6.50 ERA / 1.611 WHIP

Jimmy Yacabonis: 4 GS / 41 IP / 6.80 ERA / 1.829 WHIP

Ty Blach: 5 GS / 20.2 IP / 11.32 ERA / 2.177 WHIP

Dan Straily: 8 GS / 47.2 IP / 9.82 ERA / 1.993 WHIP

Aaron Brooks: 12 GS / 59.2 IP / 6.18 ERA / 1.492 WHIP

David Hess: 14 GS / 80 IP / 7.09 ERA / 1.550 WHIP

 

and... Andrew Cashner: 17 GS / 96.1 IP / 3.83 ERA / 1.194 WHIP.

 

Bundy is gone. Cobb is injury-prone. There will be other injuries. Cashner or someone similar to him is something the O's need to get through the 2020 season. There will be plenty of opportunities for the waiver-wire scrubs with a 1 in a 1,000 chance of being a surprise. Elias certainly didn't have any luck with that last year.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

Unfair to call him a scrub. The O's actually started plenty of scrubs last year:

Sean Gilmartin: 1 GS / 2.1 IP / 19.29 ERA / 3.857 WHIP

Yefry Ramirez: 1 GS / 10.1 IP / 6.97 ERA / 1.935 WHIP

Chandler Shepherd: 3 GS / 19 IP / 6.63 ERA / 1.526 WHIP

Tom Eshelman: 4 GS / 36 IP / 6.50 ERA / 1.611 WHIP

Jimmy Yacabonis: 4 GS / 41 IP / 6.80 ERA / 1.829 WHIP

Ty Blach: 5 GS / 20.2 IP / 11.32 ERA / 2.177 WHIP

Dan Straily: 8 GS / 47.2 IP / 9.82 ERA / 1.993 WHIP

Aaron Brooks: 12 GS / 59.2 IP / 6.18 ERA / 1.492 WHIP

David Hess: 14 GS / 80 IP / 7.09 ERA / 1.550 WHIP

 

and... Andrew Cashner: 17 GS / 96.1 IP / 3.83 ERA / 1.194 WHIP.

 

Bundy is gone. Cobb is injury-prone. There will be other injuries. Cashner or someone similar to him is something the O's need to get through the 2020 season. There will be plenty of opportunities for the waiver-wire scrubs with a 1 in a 1,000 chance of being a surprise. Elias certainly didn't have any luck with that last year.

I'm going to assume you do recognize that what Cashner did here last year wasn't in line with the rest of his career.  

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13 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

I disagree with your earlier statement that this year doesn't matter.  It matters a lot.  This is the year where some of the guys in the minors need to step up and make a name for themselves at the big league level.  That they can be a part of the next winning team in Baltimore.  

 

I meant in terms of wins and losses, definitely do not want him blocking any of our young pitchers and if you think Akin/Kremer will get less innings because of a Cashner signing, then I am completely with you.  

I didn't mind watching him pitch, seemed like his fastball had good movement and he had decent command of it.  I know we won't get 2.7 bWar out him again, but a 4.5ERA and a win might not be too much to ask. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm going to assume you do recognize that what Cashner did here last year wasn't in line with the rest of his career.  

Cashner is more likely to be Mike Wright than the pitcher with a 1.194 WHIP with the Orioles last year. 

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