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The Astros and Red Sox Punishments

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It seems to me that "sign stealing" has long been part of the game, at all levels. The O's had a third baseman, Auerilio (spelling) Rodriquez, great D and arm, not much bat, that supposedly had a knack for reading signs. As far as Astros go, they certainly had the tech thing going...but for me to interpret the sign, send it to dugout, relay it to the batter, the batter to interpret the message, in the same time frame as the pitcher seeing the sign, going into delivery and throwing the pitch seems impossible. Neurologically we aren't that quick. See the ball, hit the ball, oh and wait for the drum beat before committing. Also, any catcher of worth should be able to tell if signs are being stolen by seeing how a batter reacts to the pitch and make adjustments including pushing a player off the plate (not head hunting).

Another question I've been wondering about...Do visiting teams have the same access to tech as the home team. I assume, maybe wrongly, that a player can go back in dugout and review his previous AB, study the pitcher. If so, do both teams, home and visitor, have equal tech available to them?

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2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I had no idea that opinions on reddit were so monolithic.   Remind me not to go there.   

Why you don't want to hear other team's fans opinions?   

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2 hours ago, Going Underground said:

The Nationals knew what to expect during the World Series.

There can hardly be a more vivid illustration of the hardship that cheating, or the belief that a foe is cheating, places on every opponent than the 2019 World Series. Two months ago, in the wake of the Nationals’ victory in seven games over the Astros, with all four wins in Houston, my colleague Barry Svrluga wrote a riveting story about the extreme lengths to which Washington went to prevent exactly the kind of sign-stealing Houston has now been convicted of.

 

Every Nats pitcher was given five sets of signs to indicate his pitches. For example, one finger for a fastball, two for a curve, three for a change-up and so forth. But the Nats went further. Each of their 12 pitchers got five different set of signs. Perhaps in “Sign Set 1” a single finger would mean a slider to Max Scherzer, but the same one finger might mean a change-up to Stephen Strasburg.

 

How on earth could a pitcher keep so many sets of signals straight in his mind, especially under World Series pressure? Each Nats pitcher had his own five personal sign sets pasted under the bill of his hat. And both pitcher and catcher had to coordinate which set they were using.

On every pitch.

 

No one knows exactly what the Astros did in exactly what games of exactly which seasons, including 2019. But here’s what we do know: The Nats used their six days off between clinching the pennant and starting the World Series to institute a system worthy of “Hidden Figures.” It’s nice to have a smart, veteran team.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/cheating-ruins-everything-about-sports-the-astros-got-what-they-deserved/2020/01/13/ebea7380-3654-11ea-bf30-ad313e4ec754_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_sports&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

Yeah I think the Astros still did a cover-up.  They said they stopped cheating in the middle of the 2018 season.  Does anyone actually believe that?   It will be interesting to see how badly they hit this upcoming season.  I think the league needs to come out and say that if players are caught cheating like this in the future they will be suspended for a season without pay.  

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2 hours ago, Going Underground said:

“I can’t comment on the specific [sign-stealing] investigation that we read is taking place for obvious reasons, but I think negative attention that’s been directed towards the Astros recently is a shame,” Elias said at the general manager meetings in November. “I’m very aware of all the good things and good people and incredible work and hard work that was done there basically over most of this decade to build that franchise into what it is now.

"I hate to see those accomplishments and those people disparaged just by association with a couple of weird episodes. We’ll see how it all shakes out, but there are a lot of positives — the people who run that place and the operation as a whole that just unfortunately is being overshadowed by some negativity right now. We’ll see where in regards to this latest situation, we’ll see where the league takes it. But I hope for the best.”

Yeah this is what I was mentioning earlier.  Also with them being accused of fixing trackman data to make their prospects to have better spin rates and wasn't he in charge of the minor leagues at one point.  MLB is also replacing Trackman.  Perhaps a coincidence or maybe the new system is more tamper proof.  

Like I have said intentionally tanking shows poor character.  I don't know people seem on here seem Ok with that. It is one thing to rebuild but Elias isn't rebuilding the major league club.  He didn't make any additions last year and he only signed a short-stop this year even after getting rid of 2 of our top 3 starters and our best position player for dubious prospects. 

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32 minutes ago, atomic said:

Why you don't want to hear other team's fans opinions?   

Let’s just say (1) I’ve never looked at Reddit, and don’t care to, but (2) I’m pretty sure that “everyone” there doesn’t share the same opinion, which is how you presented it.

Here’s a tidbit: in an MLBTR poll, 47% think the Astros got off too light, 44% think the punishment was fair, 8% think the penalty was too heavy.    That’s with about 20,000 people voting so far.    So, very mixed opinions there.   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/mlbtr-poll-the-astros-scandal.html

 

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2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s just say (1) I’ve never looked at Reddit, and don’t care to, but (2) I’m pretty sure that “everyone” there doesn’t share the same opinion, which is how you presented it.

Here’s a tidbit: in an MLBTR poll, 47% think the Astros got off too light, 44% think the punishment was fair, 8% think the penalty was too heavy.    That’s with about 20,000 people voting so far.    So, very mixed opinions there.   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/mlbtr-poll-the-astros-scandal.html

 

It depends on the sub-reddit but you will see a huge amount of group think on Reddit.

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15 hours ago, weams said:

 

This whole episode has been eye-opening for me. Now I realize that teams really need to have multiple play books for catchers. Even if the real-time part is no longer an issue, you still have the potential for guys on base to steal signs and relay it to the hitter with the benefit of video replay scouting. 

And re: the above tweet, it makes a lot of sense that the Yankees would be in on something like this. When you see guys like Urshela, Tauchman, Maybin and Hicks suddenly hitting like they never have before, it raises red flags. I know I jumped to the conclusion that they were peddling something like steroids, but now I think they may have had better information on pitches that are coming. That information might have been perfectly legit, analytics based stuff. I don't know. I just know that I've envied their ability to get guys to way over perform.

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It depends on the sub-reddit but you will see a huge amount of group think on Reddit.

I believe Reddit is where all the Digg users jumped ship to after Kevin Rose changed gears on that site.  That was an interesting time back in the earlyish  internet. 

I am with @UpstateNYfan , how does this even work, with the timing and then the hitter still has to execute his swing against a major league quality pitch. 

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5 minutes ago, murph said:

I believe Reddit is where all the Digg users jumped ship to after Kevin Rose changed gears on that site.  That was an interesting time back in the earlyish  internet. 

I am with @UpstateNYfan , how does this even work, with the timing and then the hitter still has to execute his swing against a major league quality pitch. 

I am more curious how often they did it. It couldn't have been on every pitch.  That seems like it would have been too easy for the other team to pick up the scheme.  

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3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I am more curious how often they did it. It couldn't have been on every pitch.  That seems like it would have been too easy for the other team to pick up the scheme.  

 

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28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s just say (1) I’ve never looked at Reddit, and don’t care to, but (2) I’m pretty sure that “everyone” there doesn’t share the same opinion, which is how you presented it.

Here’s a tidbit: in an MLBTR poll, 47% think the Astros got off too light, 44% think the punishment was fair, 8% think the penalty was too heavy.    That’s with about 20,000 people voting so far.    So, very mixed opinions there.   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/mlbtr-poll-the-astros-scandal.html

 

Online polls are worthless.  People vote multiple times.  If you don't believe me go to /r/baseball and read about it.  You can share you opinion and be the one voice other than the Astro's fan to think it isn't too light.   As much time as you spend on here talking about baseball I am sure you have the time to go to reddit and read the thread about this on there. 
 

Really you are better than this post.  You are saying you are  clearly ignorant of the situation and you I choose to continue to be ignorant of the situation but I am clearly wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I am more curious how often they did it. It couldn't have been on every pitch.  That seems like it would have been too easy for the other team to pick up the scheme.  

The mystery to me is that nobody thought anything of the constant trash can lid banging.    That doesn’t exactly seem subtle.  

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29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It depends on the sub-reddit but you will see a huge amount of group think on Reddit.

Translation: "I did my usual contrarian view to anything anyone expresses and got down voted so badly that I can't post anymore". 

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17 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

My thing is with all this is what happens next? Will there be a league wide investigation because the Astros and presumably boston are going to be saying "Other teams are doing it?" How can they prove that and how will major league baseball respond if it's a league wide issue? 

Everyone did steroids, doesn't make it right. MLB is responsible for the integrity of the game and has to make an example out of somebody even if the Astros were just the ones who got caught. It does seem like they took sign stealing to a new level that they had to know was wrong.

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28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It depends on the sub-reddit but you will see a huge amount of group think on Reddit.

I love Reddit. I've posted questions ranging from finance advice to which laptop should I buy and have always gotten seemingly genuine responses/advice. Yes there's plenty of junk on there, but if you stick to the relevant Sub-Reddits it's a very useful tool. And it's 1,000 times better than Twitter, the absolute cesspool of social media. 

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