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The Astros and Red Sox Punishments

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On 1/10/2020 at 10:18 AM, NCRaven said:

Exactly, Elias was player development in the minor leagues, not major league team operations.

According to Houston sports radio talking about the firings, most of the scouting department and parts of the minor league organizations were at least aware of it and a bunch of scouts were fired a while back. I can't see how Elias is squeaky clean.

 

Not advocating that he be disciplined or anything but it's just strange his name has not been mentioned or tied to it.

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1 minute ago, dtk9119 said:

According to Houston sports radio talking about the firings, most of the scouting department and parts of the minor league organizations were at least aware of it and a bunch of scouts were fired a while back. I can't see how Elias is squeaky clean.

 

Not advocating that he be disciplined or anything but it's just strange his name has not been mentioned or tied to it.

Well Elias is never mentioned in any way so he is clean as can be until he is. 

 

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2 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:

According to Houston sports radio talking about the firings, most of the scouting department and parts of the minor league organizations were at least aware of it and a bunch of scouts were fired a while back. I can't see how Elias is squeaky clean.

 

Not advocating that he be disciplined or anything but it's just strange his name has not been mentioned or tied to it.

i am sure that Elias knew. Most of baseball had an idea this was going on. Direct involvement,probably not.

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2 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:

According to Houston sports radio talking about the firings, most of the scouting department and parts of the minor league organizations were at least aware of it and a bunch of scouts were fired a while back. I can't see how Elias is squeaky clean.

 

Not advocating that he be disciplined or anything but it's just strange his name has not been mentioned or tied to it.

This came to Houston with Beltran and was supported by Cora. Elias was not in that chain of command. 

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Just now, weams said:

Well Elias is never mentioned in any way so he is clean as can be until he is. 

 

My concern, as a poster above also mentioned, I hope this doesn't speak to Elias's character and we end up having similar issues in the future.

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1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

i am sure that Elias knew. Most of baseball had an idea this was going on. Direct involvement,probably not.

Heck I knew. The Toronto Man with the White Shirt. And Beltran was a big Yankee. 

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10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Manfred’s official findings can be found here: https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf

No mention of Elias or Sig.     The following comment was interesting:

 

“Finally, I will make some general observations regarding the Astros’ baseball operations department that were gleaned from the 68 interviews my investigators conducted in addition to the nine interviews conducted regarding a separate investigation into former Assistant General Manager Brandon Taubman’s conduct during a clubhouse celebration. Like many Clubs with very experienced individuals running their baseball operations departments, Astros owner Jim Crane and his senior executive team spent their energies focused on running the business side of the Club while delegating control and discretion on the baseball side to Luhnow. And it is difficult to question that division of responsibilities in light of the fact that Luhnow is widely considered to be one of the most successful baseball executives of his generation, credited with ushering in the second “analytics” revolution in baseball and rebuilding the Houston Astros into a perennial Postseason contender. But while no one can dispute that Luhnow’s baseball operations department is an industry leader in its analytics, it is very clear to me that the culture of the baseball operations department, manifesting itself in the way its employees are treated, its relations with other Clubs, and its relations with the media and external stakeholders, has been very problematic. At least in my view, the baseball operations department’s insular culture – one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations, combined with a staff of individuals who often lacked direction or sufficient oversight, led, at least in part, to the Brandon Taubman incident, the Club’s admittedly inappropriate and inaccurate response to that incident, and finally, to an environment that allowed the conduct described in this report to have occurred.”

No Mention. None. Probably best to assume the best. 

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Just now, Moose Milligan said:

If this is quickly going to turn into referendum on Elias, whatever.  Just...whatever. 

No, it wont. 

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1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

This is a concern I have with Elias. Hopefully he's different. If you ask BJ Surhoff, he's not, but I know that's only one side of that story.

Well, if I was part of the problem and saw the punishment just given out (and immediate firings as a result) I would change my ways and attitude pretty quick.  This is a general statement and no reflection of anything Elias/Sig related.  This punishment is meant to be a wake up call, for those involved and any considering these type actions in the future.  If there is any considerations of similar behavior hopefully it gets ruled out now. 

I don't see how Cora doesn't get 2+ years based on being the ring leader.  Combined with the quick firings of Ludnow/Hinch, I can't imagine the Sox would hire a multi year interim (especially when last year wasn't good for the Sox). 

No players had punishments but Beltran switching into a coaching role makes that unclear to me.  Will they treat it as the time the crime was committed or simply the power they have over the position now.

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2 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:

My concern, as a poster above also mentioned, I hope this doesn't speak to Elias's character and we end up having similar issues in the future.

We won't. We don't. It's all good. 

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1 minute ago, jerios55 said:

Well, if I was part of the problem and saw the punishment just given out (and immediate firings as a result) I would change my ways and attitude pretty quick.  This is a general statement and no reflection of anything Elias/Sig related.  This punishment is meant to be a wake up call, for those involved and any considering these type actions in the future.  If there is any considerations of similar behavior hopefully it gets ruled out now. 

I don't see how Cora doesn't get 2+ years based on being the ring leader.  Combined with the quick firings of Ludnow/Hinch, I can't imagine the Sox would hire a multi year interim (especially when last year wasn't good for the Sox). 

No players had punishments but Beltran switching into a coaching role makes that unclear to me.  Will they treat it as the time the crime was committed or simply the power they have over the position now.

Cora is likely to get the lifetime with being the orchestrator of two separate schemes. 

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9 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:

According to Houston sports radio talking about the firings, most of the scouting department and parts of the minor league organizations were at least aware of it and a bunch of scouts were fired a while back. I can't see how Elias is squeaky clean.

 

Not advocating that he be disciplined or anything but it's just strange his name has not been mentioned or tied to it.

It's not that strange given such a thorough investigation combined with the regular departure of front office personnel over the years (e.g. Sig not renewing his contract, a number of others (big name to Atlanta if I recall)) and that the scheme was run by the major league players. Plus given his focus on scouting/minors/international, the optimist in me says that while there may have been rumors or distant knowledge, our multiple FO members formerly of the Astros were separated enough to not be implicated. Further, there were simultaneous rumblings of FO personnel unhappy with Luhnow's leadership/culture, again potentially reflected in personnel leaving for other organizations, that hopefully we've gotten lucky and have inherited a FO that wants to take the best from the Astros (player development, scouting, analytics) while developing their own culture with the Orioles (a more positive one). 

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