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wildcard

Is Mouncastle as good a hitter as Mancini was prior to his rookie year?

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5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I didn’t say that because it was obvious.  I quoted interloper’s post about their comparative stats at age 22, and I mentioned that Mountcastle would be two years younger this year than Mancini was in his rookie year.    So, I think the age point was covered.    

That’s also why I focused on short term vs. long term.    Mountcastle’s age gives him more time to develop and reach his peak, which is why I like his ceiling better in the long term.    In the short term, though, I think you need to take into account that Mancini had a much smoother rookie transition than most players do.    I think most of us, even people who were high on Mancini, were pleasantly surprised by how easily he adjusted that year.    It’s possible that Mountcastle will too, but that’s asking a lot, even if you like Mountcastle better in the long run.   
 

I really want to concentrate on tools. Not results. Especially bat speed and natural loft. And with that, Mountcastle just wins. 

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2 hours ago, TINSTAAPP said:

No because Mancini's approach at the plate and plate discipline improved at every level as he advanced through the minors. In his last full season in the minors, Mancini actually had a respectable 9.5 BB%. I bet Mountcastle's walk to strikeout ratio would resemble rookie year Jonathan Schoop if he played an entire season next year in the majors.

Small sample size:

Mountcastle in Spring Training

'18 - 24 AB, 1 BB, 9 K, .987 OPS

'19 - 39 AB, 5 BB, 9 K, .748 OPS

Walk rate isn't important. 

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Just now, weams said:

I really want to concentrate on tools. Not results. Especially bat speed and natural loft. And with that, Mountcastle just wins. 

I can’t debate you on this.    I’ve seen probably 20-40 film highlights of good Mountcastle at bats, usually from some mediocre angle, and that’s just not something I can base a judgment on.    Meanwhile I’ve seen Mancini bat hundreds if not thousands of times.    

I’ll only add that plate discipline and pitch recognition are also important regardless of bat speed and loft.    Especially at the major league level against the best pitchers in the world.    All indications are that Mountcastle’s tools will play at the big league level, but just how good he turns out to be will depend a lot on these factors.   
 

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I can’t debate you on this.    I’ve seen probably 20-40 film highlights of good Mountcastle at bats, usually from some mediocre angle, and that’s just not something I can base a judgment on.    Meanwhile I’ve seen Mancini bat hundreds if not thousands of times.    

I’ll only add that plate discipline and pitch recognition are also important regardless of bat speed and loft.    Especially at the major league level against the best pitchers in the world.    All indications are that Mountcastle’s tools will play at the big league level, but just how good he turns out to be will depend a lot on these factors.   
 

Sure. Mancini is pretty good. 

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3 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Small sample size:

Mountcastle in Spring Training

'18 - 24 AB, 1 BB, 9 K, .987 OPS

'19 - 39 AB, 5 BB, 9 K, .748 OPS

Walk rate isn't important. 

That sample is too small to make any statements.    Especially in spring training where the quality of the competition varies drastically.

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I can’t debate you on this.    I’ve seen probably 20-40 film highlights of good Mountcastle at bats, usually from some mediocre angle, and that’s just not something I can base a judgment on.    Meanwhile I’ve seen Mancini bat hundreds if not thousands of times.    

I’ll only add that plate discipline and pitch recognition are also important regardless of bat speed and loft.    Especially at the major league level against the best pitchers in the world.    All indications are that Mountcastle’s tools will play at the big league level, but just how good he turns out to be will depend a lot on these factors.   
 

Fortunately Mountcastle will not be facing the best pitchers in the world every night.  There are plenty in the league that do not fit that description on any give night.

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15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I didn’t say that because it was obvious.  I quoted interloper’s post about their comparative stats at age 22, and I mentioned that Mountcastle would be two years younger this year than Mancini was in his rookie year.    So, I think the age point was covered.    

That’s also why I focused on short term vs. long term.    Mountcastle’s age gives him more time to develop and reach his peak, which is why I like his ceiling better in the long term.    In the short term, though, I think you need to take into account that Mancini had a much smoother rookie transition than most players do.    I think most of us, even people who were high on Mancini, were pleasantly surprised by how easily he adjusted that year.    It’s possible that Mountcastle will too, but that’s asking a lot, even if you like Mountcastle better in the long run.   
 

Well ok then. Some times you gotta remember that I may not have read the whole thread. Feisty today aren't we? :D

I have little doubt Mountcastle is going to hit in the major league and hit well. He may have a bit of an adjustment period, but he has better tools than Mancini. Mancini though had a much better plan at the plate, and that's what will decide whether Mountcastle reaches his offensive potential or not. Will he develop that plan at the plate to know what the pitchers are trying to do to him and not solely rely on his amazing hand eye coordination and bat speed? 

If he does, he will be an All-Star level bat.

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1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Unfortunately Mountcastle will not be facing the best pitchers in the world every night. There are plenty in the league that do not fit the description on any give night.

I’d say that’s fortunate, not unfortunate.   

However, as a general statement, Mountcastle will see much better pitching in the majors than in the minors.    
 

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’d say that’s fortunate, not unfortunate.   

However, as a general statement, Mountcastle will see much better pitching in the majors than in the minors.    
 

Yes, I changed it.

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2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well ok then. Some times you gotta remember that I may not have read the whole thread. Feisty today aren't we? :D

I have little doubt Mountcastle is going to hit in the major league and hit well. He may have a bit of an adjustment period, but he has better tools than Mancini. Mancini though had a much better plan at the plate, and that's what will decide whether Mountcastle reaches his offensive potential or not. Will he develop that plan at the plate to know what the pitchers are trying to do to him and not solely rely on his amazing hand eye coordination and bat speed? 

If he does, he will be an All-Star level bat.

Yes, feisty.   I didn’t sleep well last night.   But we are in total agreement on Mountcastle, which is not surprising since I always rely heavily on your scouting reports on players, having no scouting skills of my own and no real good looks at the player anyway.   

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Just now, Frobby said:

Yes, feisty.   I didn’t sleep well last night.   But we are in total agreement on Mountcastle, which is not surprising since I always rely heavily on your scouting reports on players, having no scouting skills of my own and no real good looks at the player anyway.   

You don't need any looks. Just listen to milb radio and wait for the sound of the bat.  

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Just now, RZNJ said:

You don't need any looks. Just listen to milb radio and wait for the sound of the bat.  

You don't think certain players hit balls that have a distinct sound off the bat?

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think I've been unfair in my criticism.  He's a poor defensive player who bats right handed.  That limits his value.  I don't think he will bring back much in trade due to those factors.

If it comes to pass that Mountcastle isn't superior at the bat or in the field to Mancini I'll feel the same way about him.  I think Mountcastle has the potential be be superior defensively because of his past history.

Edit- Keep in mind I'm against gaming Mountcastle's service clock since I don't think he will be the caliber of player that warrants such action.  Obviously I'm not predicting stardom.

That's fair.

I will say, and I think you'll probably disagree with this, that I think Mancini becomes a much more attractive player when he's at 1B. I'm not sure Mountcastle has that position on the field where he feels like a more attractive player, but that's an unknown so far because we just haven't seen him in the outfield yet.

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Just now, interloper said:

That's fair.

I will say, and I think you'll probably disagree with this, that I think Mancini becomes a much more attractive player when he's at 1B. I'm not sure Mountcastle has that position on the field where he feels like a more attractive player, but that's an unknown so far because we just haven't seen him in the outfield yet.

I'll agree he's better suited to first, or DH.  I'll also agree that we don't know about Mountcastle yet.  That is one of the reasons I was annoyed he didn't get called up last year, I think it could have really aided his development.

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20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't think certain players hit balls that have a distinct sound off the bat?

Bat speed and the sweet spot of the bat should make a similar sound assuming same bat speed and same wood.  So the sound of Renato Nunez and Mountcastle should be pretty much the same under those circumstances.  I applaud anyone who can judge the differences over the radio.

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