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Poll: what do you think of the Astros’ punishment?

What do you think of the Astros’ punishment?  

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  1. 1. What do you think of the Astros’ punishment?


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  • Poll closed on 1/20/2020 at 20:32

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35 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It does seem like this could rub off on Sig, even if Elias isn’t in the line of fire.

Sig was at large as a third base coach in the minors. 

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19 minutes ago, weams said:

Sig was at large as a third base coach in the minors. 

He could have worked on Codebreaker before the season. He worked on Ground Control over the off season. Not saying he was the point man but he had to know. He and Luhnow were probably closest of anyone in the Astros organization.

“I’ve always had a good relationship with Jeff (Luhnow). He hasn’t just been my boss, but he’s been like my best friend for 14 years.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/11/sig-mejdal-talks-about-his-arrival-in-baltimore-and-the-work-that-awaits.html

 

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It does seem like this could rub off on Sig, even if Elias isn’t in the line of fire.

Designing a system for picking up catchers signs is a lot different than coming up with using a monitor and electronic system to cheat.  This part could have simply been to help a baserunner on 2B decide the catchers signs.   The smoking gun is who suggested using the monitor to do it.

Or, even if they used a monitor to decode the signs, that information could have only been used to inform the players how to pick up the signs when they were on 2B.  

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8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Designing a system for picking up catchers signs is a lot different than coming up with using a monitor and electronic system to cheat.  This part could have simply been to help a baserunner on 2B decide the catchers signs.   The smoking gun is who suggested using the monitor to do it.

Or, even if they used a monitor to decode the signs, that information could have only been used to inform the players how to pick up the signs when they were on 2B.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2020/02/07/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scheme-codebreaker/4697247002/

Agreed. Just because they both had cutesie names. Code breaker and ground control are vastly different affairs. 

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The deterrent effect of this punishment is minimal in my opinion.  In fact, it doesn’t exist. In the future, a player weighing cheating on this level vs a complete non-punishment and total lack of responsibility is an easy call.  
If any of the players who did this continue to get away with it and face no penalties, why would anyone not commit this act if they see it as providing an advantage?  
None of them got punished even minimally so it’s hard to say that they didn’t fully get away with it.  
Reading Astroball and Darvish’s quotes it seems even more selfish that Houston wasn’t willing to compete and damning for their future, but MLB showed they barely care with their inaction.  Also, a reminder that the Astros were warned specifically several times to not misuse the video or the video room and blatantly ignored Manfred.  Still, no player faced a punishment.  

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17 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

The deterrent effect of this punishment is minimal in my opinion.  In fact, it doesn’t exist. In the future, a player weighing cheating on this level vs a complete non-punishment and total lack of responsibility is an easy call.  
If any of the players who did this continue to get away with it and face no penalties, why would anyone not commit this act if they see it as providing an advantage?  
None of them got punished even minimally so it’s hard to say that they didn’t fully get away with it.  
Reading Astroball and Darvish’s quotes it seems even more selfish that Houston wasn’t willing to compete and damning for their future, but MLB showed they barely care with their inaction.  Also, a reminder that the Astros were warned specifically several times to not misuse the video or the video room and blatantly ignored Manfred.  Still, no player faced a punishment.  

Well, Beltran did lose his job because of this, even though there was no punishment imposed on him directly by MLB.

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37 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

The deterrent effect of this punishment is minimal in my opinion.  In fact, it doesn’t exist. In the future, a player weighing cheating on this level vs a complete non-punishment and total lack of responsibility is an easy call.  
If any of the players who did this continue to get away with it and face no penalties, why would anyone not commit this act if they see it as providing an advantage?  
None of them got punished even minimally so it’s hard to say that they didn’t fully get away with it.  
Reading Astroball and Darvish’s quotes it seems even more selfish that Houston wasn’t willing to compete and damning for their future, but MLB showed they barely care with their inaction.  Also, a reminder that the Astros were warned specifically several times to not misuse the video or the video room and blatantly ignored Manfred.  Still, no player faced a punishment.  

As we have now learned, Astros management didn't just know this was going on, they spearheaded the effort by using the Codebreaker app to decipher opponents' signs. Codebreaker was introduced to Luhnow by an intern. Luhnow put it into use. Luhnow reportedly would go into the video room and ask the personnel there if they were codebreaking. It was a top down scam. I don't think the league (which is the owners) want to punish players for doing what their management told them to do. 

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15 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

As we have now learned, Astros management didn't just know this was going on, they spearheaded the effort by using the Codebreaker app to decipher opponents' signs. Codebreaker was introduced to Luhnow by an intern. Luhnow put it into use. Luhnow reportedly would go into the video room and ask the personnel there if they were codebreaking. It was a top down scam. I don't think the league (which is the owners) want to punish players for doing what their management told them to do. 

As I understand the rules, the "codebreaker" system in and of itself wasn't against the rules.  Teams are allowed to try to pick up on other teams' signals.  Informing players of the opponents alternative signaling systems so that they can employ that information while on second base to pick up the catcher's sign and signal to your batter is not a violation.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  The violation would come into play if monitors are being used real-time to learn and relay the information to either the batter or the runner on second base.

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11 minutes ago, Number5 said:

As I understand the rules, the "codebreaker" system in and of itself wasn't against the rules.  Teams are allowed to try to pick up on other teams' signals.  Informing players of the opponents alternative signaling systems so that they can employ that information while on second base to pick up the catcher's sign and signal to your batter is not a violation.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  The violation would come into play if monitors are being used real-time to learn and relay the information to either the batter or the runner on second base.

I think using the Codebreaker machine learning app in conjunction with video to decode signs in real time seems to go a step beyond the time-honored tradition of stealing signs. Of course, I could be wrong about that. But it sure is getting a lot of play since the WSJ story broke.

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34 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

As we have now learned, Astros management didn't just know this was going on, they spearheaded the effort by using the Codebreaker app to decipher opponents' signs. Codebreaker was introduced to Luhnow by an intern. Luhnow put it into use. Luhnow reportedly would go into the video room and ask the personnel there if they were codebreaking. It was a top down scam. I don't think the league (which is the owners) want to punish players for doing what their management told them to do. 

It’s a matter of responsibility and where you personally place it.  I can’t, as a grown adult simply carry out orders I know are wrong and against my own code/morals/ and that I consider to be cheating my profession and the others who play just because they come from someone who I’m in a position to listen to. Right vs wrong as you see it individually. Just because I take the sign to steal without incident does not mean I can carry out cheating because it comes from the same guy.  Sign stealing and cheating this way are not on the same level in my opinion at all.  

I like this conversation but I don't like the fact that players in the future know that they can do it and they won’t miss games, checks or face any penalty at all.  They are declared not responsible by this lack of punishment and that’s a hard concept for me to grasp as I see them as guilty as anyone.  Nobody has denied their actions.  They did it and got away with it.  

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The league gave all the players immunity in exchange for their cooperation. They can't go back and punish them now. 

They can establish new rules and punishments for future infractions, and they also can come up with ways to make it more difficult to cheat this way.

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No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

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43 minutes ago, joelala said:

No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

Zero.

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56 minutes ago, joelala said:

No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

I say zero unless he or Sig ordered the Codebreaker or Code Red from the start.

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