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O's claim Travis Lakins, DFA Stevie Wilkerson

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21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I expect that it will be very obvious in ST that the O's rightfielder of the future will be Diaz.     With Hays is center and Santander in left.   They have all come through he minors as outfielders. 

So if the O's are looking for a permanent position for Mountcastle I don't see the logic in going through the pains of him learning the outfield.     He sounds like a 1B/DH to me.   And I say sounds because I can't say for sure  until I do see him.

That would be ideal, but I'm not ready to declare Diaz a major league outfielder yet.

I'm not positive that Santander is a major league starting outfielder yet either, although he sure looked like it until September 7th. Hopefully he builds on his 2019 season and doesn't run out of gas he like he seems to have last year. He had only played more than 72 games once in his career prior to 2019 (in 2016), so it isn't surprising that he ran out of gas.

The more value they can get out of Mountcastle the better, I don't think any player should be declared a 1B/DH until all other options are exhausted.

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1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

That would be ideal, but I'm not ready to declare Diaz a major league outfielder yet.

I'm not positive that Santander is a major league starting outfielder yet either, although he sure looked like it until September 7th. Hopefully he builds on his 2019 season and doesn't run out of gas he like he seems to have last year. He had only played more than 72 games once in his career prior to 2019 (in 2016), so it isn't surprising that he ran out of gas.

The more value they can get out of Mountcastle the better, I don't think any player should be declared a 1B/DH until all other options are exhausted.

Mountcastle needs to find a position he can play regularly in the majors.  If that is 1B/DH with the way he hits then would be fine with that.

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4 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I’m not even ready to declare Hays or Santander Major League outfielders.

Compared to the choices that O's have they will have to play their way out of the OF in my opinion.  So they are, until their not.  Hopefully that is in 10-15 years.

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2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Really?   Mancini has a decent arm.   Mountcastle has a weak arm.   

Mountcastle is described a slow.   Like Mancini.

Mancini has had three years to get use to the routes in the outfield.    Mountcastle has had a few games in the outfield.

I think there is a great chance that Mancini is better in the outfield then Mountcastle.   

Sight unseen it’s hard to judge, but Trey was -6 outs above average, 77th out of 92 qualified outfielders, despite starting only 83 games there.   In terms of jump, he was 86th out of 98.  That’s pretty awful and I’ll go with “what’s behind the curtain.”

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6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sight unseen it’s hard to judge, but Trey was -6 outs above average, 77th out of 92 qualified outfielders, despite starting only 83 games there.   In terms of jump, he was 86th out of 98.  That’s pretty awful and I’ll go with “what’s behind the curtain.”

What's behind the curtain is a old bald guy that is pretending to be something he is not.

I fully agree that Trey's long term future should not be in the OF.   Diaz has speed and a good arm.  If he can hit his way to the majors he is the long term answer in right.   

A below average runner with a noodle arm in not the right skill set as far as I can tell.  ST will provide more answers.

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I'm pretty optimistic about a future competitive OF of Santander, Hays, and Diaz with Mullins as 4th OF. Especially with Stewart, Mountcastle, and maybe even Mancini in the mix for 1B/DH.

It's the infield and pitching I'm worried about.

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1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

I’m not even ready to declare Hays or Santander Major League outfielders.

I am.  Considering there aren't many other options, they're going to be ML outfielders.

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2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

I would be floored if Mancini, who never played a position other than first base in the minors has a better arm than Mountcastle, who was playing shortstop in 2017 and third base as recently as last year. I think Mountcastle is likely to be a noticeably better outfielder than Mancini with sufficient reps, and the O's will make every effort to give Mountcastle those reps.

You didn't see Mountcastle play SS/3B then.  His arm was painful to watch in Bowie at 3rd.  I remember several basic outs any other 3rd baseman would've had thrown out easy, he made them close plays holding your breath.

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7 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

You didn't see Mountcastle play SS/3B then.  His arm was painful to watch in Bowie at 3rd.  I remember several basic outs any other 3rd baseman would've had thrown out easy, he made them close plays holding your breath.

Do you think it likely that Mancini, who was never give the opportunity to play any position other than first has a better arm? I don't doubt that Mountcastle's arm isn't playable at short or third in the Majors, but there is a huge chasm between that and a guy who only played first in the minors.

I imagine we will have the data on this soon enough. Would be nice if spring training games had Statcast, but I don't think they do.

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22 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

You didn't see Mountcastle play SS/3B then.  His arm was painful to watch in Bowie at 3rd.  I remember several basic outs any other 3rd baseman would've had thrown out easy, he made them close plays holding your breath.

 

11 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Do you think it likely that Mancini, who was never give the opportunity to play any position other than first has a better arm? I don't doubt that Mountcastle's arm isn't playable at short or third in the Majors, but there is a huge chasm between that and a guy who only played first in the minors.

I imagine we will have the data on this soon enough. Would be nice if spring training games had Statcast, but I don't think they do.

I remember that when Mancini was a prospect his arm was considered below average.    But looking at his hold rates in LF and RF, he’s basically been right at league average.     There has been so much negative written about Mountcastle’s arm over the years, I’m going to assume his arm will be worse than Mancini’s, even though outfield throws are a bit different from infield throws.    

All that said, generally the number of balls you catch or cut off in the outfield is more important than how well you throw.     If Mountcastle proves rangier than Mancini, he should be the better OF even if his arm is weaker.    
 

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From my limited observations, Mancini has an okay arm, but good accuracy. Maybe the accuracy scares runners enough to make up for the fringe-average to average arm strength?

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Sight unseen it’s hard to judge, but Trey was -6 outs above average, 77th out of 92 qualified outfielders, despite starting only 83 games there.   In terms of jump, he was 86th out of 98.  That’s pretty awful and I’ll go with “what’s behind the curtain.”

I don’t pretend to argue that Mancini was a good outfielder, but I do agree that he is almost certainly better than Mountcastle. It’s curious that I get backlash every time I talk about how lousy Mountcastle is on defense, but then we have discussions like this one which is focusing on how Lousy Mountcastle is on defense.

I do not want Mancini in the outfield, And I do want to maximize Mountcastle’s value as much as possible. But if the guy is destined for first base, and we already have a plethora Of Legitimate outfield candidates, I think it is better to spend the time letting them develop their outfield prowess and let him develop at first base.

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1 minute ago, Philip said:

I don’t pretend to argue that Mancini was a good outfielder, but I do agree that he is almost certainly better than Mountcastle. It’s curious that I get backlash every time I talk about how lousy Mountcastle is on defense, but then we have discussions like this one which is focusing on how Lousy Mountcastle is on defense.

I do not want Mancini in the outfield, And I do want to maximize Mountcastle’s value as much as possible. But if the guy is destined for first base, and we already have a plethora Of Legitimate outfield candidates, I think it is better to spend the time letting them develop their outfield prowess and let him develop at first base.

There’s really no basis to judge whether Mountcastle can play a decent OF.    I haven’t read a single knowledgeable comment about it from anyone who’s seen him play.    I’ve seen one negative remark about his play at 1B, which I dutifully posted here when I read it a few months back.    

I think it’s pretty fair to assume that Mountcastle is more athletic than Mancini.   If not, the O’s wouldn’t have left him on the left side of the infield for 3+ seasons.   Whether that athleticism will make him a better OF than Mancini is unknown, but the bar is pretty low.     And I say that with respect to Mancini, who I think has worked hard to be the best he can be in the OF but really doesn’t have the tools to be average.    
 

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