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How Dan Duquette built a contender

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50 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Riding on Andy MacPhail's coattails...............

Is that an option?

I don't remember Macphail signing Chen, Miggy, Ayala, and trading for Hammel and Lindstrom.  That's 3/5 of a rotation and two late inning bullpen guys, that DD acquired in one offseason.  

All Macphail did was finally talk PA into letting the bottom fall out and actually get consecutive top 5 picks.  

Elias is great at losing.  Let's see how is draft picks turn out, and if he can ever put it together.  There's something to be said that DD took an idea and made it into a reality.  

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Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

I don't remember Macphail signing Chen, Miggy, Ayala, and trading for Hammel and Lindstrom.  That's 3/5 of a rotation and two late inning bullpen guys, that DD acquired in one offseason.  

All Macphail did was finally talk PA into letting the bottom fall out and actually get consecutive top 5 picks.  

Elias is great at losing.  Let's see how is draft picks turn out, and if he can ever put it together.  There's something to be said that DD took an idea and made it into a reality.  

I was kind of being facetious.  Duquette did some good things here, and brought an urgency that was necessary.  He was also excellent at dumpster diving and getting the most out of the backend of the roster.

However, I think as late as 2016- our last playoff year- 7 out of 9 regulars had been acquired by Andy MacPhail.

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12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don't remember Macphail signing Chen, Miggy, Ayala, and trading for Hammel and Lindstrom.  That's 3/5 of a rotation and two late inning bullpen guys, that DD acquired in one offseason.  

All Macphail did was finally talk PA into letting the bottom fall out and actually get consecutive top 5 picks.  

Elias is great at losing.  Let's see how is draft picks turn out, and if he can ever put it together.  There's something to be said that DD took an idea and made it into a reality.  

I view the modern day Orioles as starting with MacPhail and continuing to Elias. MacPhail had some good drafts, he made the Bedard trade, he locked down Sarasota for a vast improvement in ST facilities which were appalling at the time of his hire, etc. Duquette brought a bit more Moneyball into the equation, found some really good talent in some frankly unbelievable places, and spent a lot of money and prospects to get the O's off the schnide. But by the time he left, the game has sprinted beyond where the Orioles were at.

Now Elias is here to bring the organization up to speed with the rest of the league. Whether he wins here or not, I almost don't care. The task is modernizing this rusty franchise. And if he doesn't win by the time he leaves, he'll have set the team up on the right path, just like MacPhail did. 

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https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/8/31/17768472/kansas-city-royals-baltimore-orioles-bad-no-good

 

Read this.

 

quote from Grant Re:Orioles

Dumb birds have a way of flying into closed windows, after all. 

and:

“The Orioles approach the international market as if owner Peter Angelos was told by a fortune teller that he would be murdered by a prospect from a different country.”

Grant Brisbee is a treasure. He’s the most consistently funny and insightful baseball writer I have ever read.

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Lets rehash old news that wont accomplish anything.

You have 3 sides of this debate. The Andy Camp, the DD Camp, and some of us, that believe it was a combination of Andy/DD that made for a good run, and wish it had been a bit better and longer.

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1 hour ago, Pickles said:

I was kind of being facetious.  Duquette did some good things here, and brought an urgency that was necessary.  He was also excellent at dumpster diving and getting the most out of the backend of the roster.

However, I think as late as 2016- our last playoff year- 7 out of 9 regulars had been acquired by Andy MacPhail.

Six of nine.  And as previously mentioned, Jones was extended by Duquette or he would have been gone.

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1 hour ago, Pickles said:

I was kind of being facetious.  Duquette did some good things here, and brought an urgency that was necessary.  He was also excellent at dumpster diving and getting the most out of the backend of the roster.

However, I think as late as 2016- our last playoff year- 7 out of 9 regulars had been acquired by Andy MacPhail.H

The pitching staff though had been rebuilt almost completely.

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9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The pitching staff though had been rebuilt almost completely.

Shouldn't that be the case in 5 years? Btw, that isn't entirely true. Gyvens, O'Day, and Britton all preceded DD.

And I don't want to poop on the guy. He brought necessary things. But that competitive window was propped open by AM.

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2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don't remember Macphail signing Chen, Miggy, Ayala, and trading for Hammel and Lindstrom.  That's 3/5 of a rotation and two late inning bullpen guys, that DD acquired in one offseason.  

All Macphail did was finally talk PA into letting the bottom fall out and actually get consecutive top 5 picks.  

Elias is great at losing.  Let's see how is draft picks turn out, and if he can ever put it together.  There's something to be said that DD took an idea and made it into a reality.  

I think we were in on Chen before Duquette arrived, although he wasn’t signed until later.    The O’Day acquisition, not mentioned in this thread so far, took place after MacPhail left but before Duquette arrived.    Obviously that was a very key acquisition as well.    

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46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think we were in on Chen before Duquette arrived, although he wasn’t signed until later.    The O’Day acquisition, not mentioned in this thread so far, took place after MacPhail left but before Duquette arrived.    Obviously that was a very key acquisition as well.    

As I understand it, Buck claimed O’Day on waivers the day he was hired. So getting O’Day was neither McPhail nor Dan, but buck.

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54 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Shouldn't that be the case in 5 years? Btw, that isn't entirely true. Gyvens, O'Day, and Britton all preceded DD.

And I don't want to poop on the guy. He brought necessary things. But that competitive window was propped open by AM.

Britton was a stroke of yuck.

He was pretty much Mike Wright, one foot of the 40 man roster, until he had his light bulb moment and came up with his dominating pitch.

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1 hour ago, Pickles said:

Shouldn't that be the case in 5 years? Btw, that isn't entirely true. Gyvens, O'Day, and Britton all preceded DD.

And I don't want to poop on the guy. He brought necessary things. But that competitive window was propped open by AM.

2011 McPhail Orioles (69-93):

Starters: Jeremy Guthrie, Zack Britton, Jake Arrietta, Alfredo Simon, Brad Bergesen

Bullpen: Kevin Gregg, Mike Gonzalez, Jason Berken, Koji Uehara, Jim Johnson

2014 Duquette Orioles (96-66):

Starters: Chris Tillman, Wei-Yin Chen, Bud Norris, Miguel Gonzalez, Ubaldo Jimenez

Bullpen: Zack Britton, Darren O'Day, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Brad Brach

 

Pretty different.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

2011 McPhail Orioles (69-93):

Starters: Jeremy Guthrie, Zack Britton, Jake Arrietta, Alfredo Simon, Brad Bergesen

Bullpen: Kevin Gregg, Mike Gonzalez, Jason Berken, Koji Uehara, Jim Johnson

2014 Duquette Orioles (96-66):

Starters: Chris Tillman, Wei-Yin Chen, Bud Norris, Miguel Gonzalez, Ubaldo Jimenez

Bullpen: Zack Britton, Darren O'Day, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Brad Brach

 

Pretty different.

2020 starters and bullpen:

Dan: Cobb...Akin? Kremer? Honestly, most of the prospects we will see his summer were drafted on his watch.

but Dan is also responsible for the Evan Phillips’ and Cody Carrolls and Chris Tillman Guaranteed contracts of the world.

Really, who cares. The past is the past. We cannot change it, we can only argue about it, and arguing about it is fruitless.

Edited by Philip

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29 minutes ago, Philip said:

As I understand it, Buck claimed O’Day on waivers the day he was hired. So getting O’Day was neither McPhail nor Dan, but buck.

I do think Buck gets some or most of the credit for that move.   But to be clear, Buck had been our manager for more than a year when O’Day was claimed.    

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