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Aristotelian

Markakis on Astros: "Every Single Guy Needs a Beating"

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33 minutes ago, atomic said:

Looking at the two guys who never played again it looks like they were at the end of their career and having a bad season.

Jason Larie was 36 and had a .596 OPS. Felix Moran was 34 and had zero WAR on the season.  Two guys in what 150 years who most likely weren’t going to return anyway.

Got it, so players getting injured in brawls is okay because some of them might suck. Good talk, thanks as always for your valuable input.

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12 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

All the evidence came from the players who were promised immunity. Even ignoring that, there’s no written rules and punishments in the CBA for violating sign stealing rules. So any punishment handed to the players would have been met with easily winnable grievances.

There was no route to players being punished for this.

Stop making sense.

The fact that this truth has been by in largely ignored by many in the media I find to be embarrassing. Right now it is all about piling on MLB and Manfred.  

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30 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

All the evidence came from the players who were promised immunity. Even ignoring that, there’s no written rules and punishments in the CBA for violating sign stealing rules. So any punishment handed to the players would have been met with easily winnable grievances.

There was no route to players being punished for this.

Sometimes futile gestures are worthwhile if they’re loud enough and public enough. Especially if you’re taking a long-term view. 

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1 minute ago, 24fps said:

Sometimes futile gestures are worthwhile if they’re loud enough and public enough. Especially if you’re taking a long-term view. 

I think ownership would be better off sacrificing Manfred.

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6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Sometimes futile gestures are worthwhile if they’re loud enough and public enough. Especially if you’re taking a long-term view. 

 

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37 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:Got it, so players getting injured in brawls is okay because some of them might suck. Good talk, thanks as always for your valuable input.

No that is not what I am saying at all.  I am saying that their injuries are probably not what caused them to never return.  Look I don’t care about brawls.  I have seen hundreds of hockey games. Tons at the minor league level.  I don’t think I ever saw an AHL game without multiple fights.  The player got five minute penalties and then came back on the ice. Not the end of the world about fights or brawls.  I know baseball players aren’t as tough as hockey players but  a few brawls isn’t a big deal,

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6 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

 

Not public enough.  I think the connection has possibilities though. 

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23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think ownership would be better off sacrificing Manfred.

Why?  He’s trying to make it go away as fast as possible with as little concrete consequence to ownership as possible. I predict he mostly succeeds. It's why I have my fingers crossed that the players crank up the volume, but I'm not holding my breath.

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6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Why?  He’s trying to make it go away as fast as possible with as little concrete consequence to ownership as possible. I predict he mostly succeeds. It's why I have my fingers crossed that the players crank up the volume, but I'm not holding my breath.

Because I don't think firing him hurts ownership at all.  I think their is a decent shot this blows over if they blame Manfred for mishandling it.  They could bring in a "law and order" type to be their agent of reform and then not change anything.

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12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because I don't think firing him hurts ownership at all.  I think their is a decent shot this blows over if they blame Manfred for mishandling it.  They could bring in a "law and order" type to be their agent of reform and then not change anything.

Since when did adding complexity make something go away faster?  I think Babypowder's summary is fundamentally correct - that's why I suggested a futile gesture, not that I ever expected to see one from any baseball commissioner, be it Rob Manfred or anyone else.  The only way something real happens is if the players get loud enough to force the issue.  Unlikely IMO.  Better the devil you know... and already own.

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6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Since when did adding complexity make something go away faster?  I think Babypowder's summary is fundamentally correct - that's why I suggested a futile gesture, not that I ever expected to see one from any baseball commissioner, be it Rob Manfred or anyone else.  The only way something real happens is if the players get loud enough to force the issue.  Unlikely IMO.  Better the devil you know... and already own.

I think firing Manfred would be less complicated than pursuing players, and more satisfying for fans.

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9 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Since when did adding complexity make something go away faster?  I think Babypowder's summary is fundamentally correct - that's why I suggested a futile gesture, not that I ever expected to see one from any baseball commissioner, be it Rob Manfred or anyone else.  The only way something real happens is if the players get loud enough to force the issue.  Unlikely IMO.  Better the devil you know... and already own.

 

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28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think firing Manfred would be less complicated than pursuing players, and more satisfying for fans.

Firing him and coming up with suspension guidelines for future cheating.  While Manfred is laying out rules for longer suspensions for beanings.  Yet he hasn’t said anything about coming up with cheating suspension lengths.

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27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think firing Manfred would be less complicated than pursuing players, and more satisfying for fans.

Manfred isn't pursuing players and ownership isn't demanding that he does.  That's the point.  All indications are that fans would be most satisfied if the Astros' punishment was greater and bless the players for keeping the issue active.

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