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Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

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53 minutes ago, atomic said:

Have you seen the Orioles roster? If you were going to pick a season to skip this surely would be the one. 

How about we pick to not skip any seasons?  That would be my preference.

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58 minutes ago, atomic said:

I don't understand your total lack of logic in your argument.  The teams don't have to honor the CBA due to the pandemic.  They are losing 3/4's or their revenue due to half a season being played with no fans.  I just don't understand why you can't see both sides.   I think this is why we have so many issues in this country.   Both sides need to compromise. If the players are taking a risk by playing why are they suggesting a longer season.  None of your argument makes any sense.  Re-read what you posted and see that lack of logic or fairness. 

Debate strategy 101: Start by telling your opponent they're totally illogical, and close by telling your opponent their argument is total nonsense.  Only when you've accepted this can we craft a compromise that benefits everyone.

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49 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Ok, I really am not going to read any more until tomorrow but I couldn't let this stand.

I know I am just a small country lawyer and you are a noted labor law expert, but please advise me as to the total lack of logic into my argument.

That is great news about teams not having to honor the CBA, I assume that goes for the players too. I guess all the players are free agents now, I hope we sign Mike Trout! Glad that Davis contract albatross is no longer hanging around the Orioles necks!

The bottom line is that the owners made a lousy deal in March. It happens. The players have made many missteps in previous CBA negotiations, from not foreseeing the collapse in the free market for mid-range players to not trying to stake a claim early on into MLBAM and other ancillary rights.

My belief is that the owners were unrealistically optimistic about the thought of things returning to normal faster than the experts said. Their thought process was likely something along the lines of, "We will be playing by June 1st, and we sell fewer tickets in April and May so getting the players on a one-third discount will be a great deal, maybe we can even increase the number of games played in the summer and make more money off split gate double headers!". They also likely were overly focused on shortening the draft to achieve their long-term goal of cutting minor league teams and saving a few million dollars on the margin. 

Unfortunately, actions have consequences, MLB made a bad deal and have to live with the consequences. Maybe they should fire some of the yes-men who assured them that the season will start with fans in mid-May. Maybe they should fire the lawyers that they paid $800+ an hour to negotiate the contract with MLBPA for failing to properly negotiate for the possibility of playing without fans to better insulate themselves from potential losses. 

I see both sides, but both sides don't need to compromise. The time for compromise was in March, when the deal was made. A compromise was reached, amateur players got screwed, MLB players got a short term loan (or payment if the season was canceled) to tide themselves over, MLB got cost certainty, and likely (mistakenly) believed that they had pulled one over on the players by cutting their salaries while still being able to hold all the major events of the season and play in front of fans.

Now MLB has to honor the deal by paying the players on a pro-rated basis, or open their books and prove to the players that they would lose more money doing that than they would canceling the season. The MLBPA doesn't owe x amount of profitability to MLB, in much the same way that the league doesn't share profits with them. It is a business arrangement entered into by professionals with highly paid lawyers who are among the best in their field. Unfortunately for MLB, it looks like this deal is going to bite them in the behind. It isn't up to the players to bail them out.

Hope to hear more constructive comments tomorrow, I am off to enjoy my birthday!

 

There was no binding deal made in March. If there was the players would be suing the league.  You have chosen to ignore facts and logic to fit your preconceived notions.  I am not sure what you have to gain by putting forth an illogical untruthful narrative.

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1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

Ok, I really am not going to read any more until tomorrow but I couldn't let this stand.

I know I am just a small country lawyer and you are a noted labor law expert, but please advise me as to the total lack of logic into my argument.

That is great news about teams not having to honor the CBA, I assume that goes for the players too. I guess all the players are free agents now, I hope we sign Mike Trout! Glad that Davis contract albatross is no longer hanging around the Orioles necks!

The bottom line is that the owners made a lousy deal in March. It happens. The players have made many missteps in previous CBA negotiations, from not foreseeing the collapse in the free market for mid-range players to not trying to stake a claim early on into MLBAM and other ancillary rights.

My belief is that the owners were unrealistically optimistic about the thought of things returning to normal faster than the experts said. Their thought process was likely something along the lines of, "We will be playing by June 1st, and we sell fewer tickets in April and May so getting the players on a one-third discount will be a great deal, maybe we can even increase the number of games played in the summer and make more money off split gate double headers!". They also likely were overly focused on shortening the draft to achieve their long-term goal of cutting minor league teams and saving a few million dollars on the margin. 

Unfortunately, actions have consequences, MLB made a bad deal and have to live with the consequences. Maybe they should fire some of the yes-men who assured them that the season will start with fans in mid-May. Maybe they should fire the lawyers that they paid $800+ an hour to negotiate the contract with MLBPA for failing to properly negotiate for the possibility of playing without fans to better insulate themselves from potential losses. 

I see both sides, but both sides don't need to compromise. The time for compromise was in March, when the deal was made. A compromise was reached, amateur players got screwed, MLB players got a short term loan (or payment if the season was canceled) to tide themselves over, MLB got cost certainty, and likely (mistakenly) believed that they had pulled one over on the players by cutting their salaries while still being able to hold all the major events of the season and play in front of fans.

Now MLB has to honor the deal by paying the players on a pro-rated basis, or open their books and prove to the players that they would lose more money doing that than they would canceling the season. The MLBPA doesn't owe x amount of profitability to MLB, in much the same way that the league doesn't share profits with them. It is a business arrangement entered into by professionals with highly paid lawyers who are among the best in their field. Unfortunately for MLB, it looks like this deal is going to bite them in the behind. It isn't up to the players to bail them out.

Hope to hear more constructive comments tomorrow, I am off to enjoy my birthday!

 

Caveman+Lawyer+Jury.png

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On 5/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, atomic said:

6100 people a game is pretty good.  I am not sure why you are trying to make it bad.   Do you hate women?  

Also there stadium capacity is only 4,000.  I am sure if the played at Camden Yards or all their games were at Audi field their attendance would be much higher. 

7e6b93_9010f9088e364c65b0974d1c13019e0c~

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What are the chances of a 2020 season?

 

"Are we talking one in a hundred?"

"Its more like one in a million"

"So you're saying theres a chance"

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2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

 

IN BREAKING NEWS...

Bob Nightengale of USAToday Sports today actually shot rainbows and unicorns OUT of his butt!

 

Film at 11...

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2 hours ago, scOtt said:

IN BREAKING NEWS...

Bob Nightengale of USAToday Sports today actually shot rainbows and unicorns OUT of his butt!

 

Film at 11...

I believe him. Still too much  at stake for them to not get a deal done. I think we'll be watching baseball this year. 

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On 5/29/2020 at 5:15 PM, CallMeBrooksie said:

I believe him. Still too much  at stake for them to not get a deal done. I think we'll be watching baseball this year. 

I thought that too but they are far apart from players.   They have no real plan on where they are playing.  It is almost June.  Seems remote at this point,

Seems like women’s soccer is so much more on the ball. Playing in a state with a very low infection rate.  Ready to go in June.  Maybe baseball should hire their commissioner,  

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48 minutes ago, atomic said:

I thought that too but they are far apart from players.   They have no real plan on where they are playing.  It is almost June.  Seems remote at this point,

Seems like women’s soccer is so much more on the ball. Playing in a state with a very low infection rate.  Ready to go in June.  Maybe baseball should hire their commissioner,  

I believe they're closer than what they're publicly portraying. I think they both know they can't afford to lose an entire season. They're already down the path of logistics. It's purely a money issue, regardless of the posturing that takes place through the media.

Also whatever women's soccer is doing is beyond irrelevant. Not interested whatsoever. 

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13 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I believe they're closer than what they're publicly portraying. I think they both know they can't afford to lose an entire season. They're already down the path of logistics. It's purely a money issue, regardless of the posturing that takes place through the media.

Also whatever women's soccer is doing is beyond irrelevant. Not interested whatsoever. 

Why is it irrelevant? And they are a sports league. Neither sport will have fans so it is pretty much the same thing.  Hockey  and NBA are also very far along.  

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