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1 hour ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Albert Belle?

Is it strange that I think he should be in the Hall of Fame?

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2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Not sure there was ever a bigger punk in MLB, than Ortiz, unless you go all the way back to Ty Cobb.

 

Encarnacion. Tied with Ortiz anyways.

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1 hour ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Albert Belle?

 

16 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Is it strange that I think he should be in the Hall of Fame?

No. His career was cut a little too short to put up big counting numbers but he was an offensive force while he played! Highest tier of dangerous hitters.

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19 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Is it strange that I think he should be in the Hall of Fame?

I still argue with people to this day that talk about what a terrible signing he was for the Orioles.  It was the injury that made it a bad signing.  He was actually quite good on the field. 

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1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

Is it strange that I think he should be in the Hall of Fame?

No.  He should be.  If you're going to put in a guy like Kirby Puckett who's career was cut short then you have to look at Belle.

The differences here are that everyone loved Puckett and he had glaucoma.  Everyone hated Belle and he had a bad hip.  Glaucoma and loss of eyesight in a guy that everyone loves gets sympathy.  A bad hip on a guy that everyone hates gets ignored.

Puckett:  .318/.360/.477 for an .837 OPS, 124 OPS+  51.1 WAR.  2,304 hits, 207 homers, 1085 RBI in 7,244 at bats.  Pretty confident that if he played out his career he'd have gotten 3,000 hits.  Also worth mentioning his 6 Gold Gloves.  

Belle:  .295/.369/.564 for a .933 OPS, 144 OPS+ 40.1 WAR.  1,726 hits, 381 homers, 1,239 RBI in 5,853 at bats.  Pretty confident that if he played out his career he would have passed 500 homers, maybe approached 600.

Belle had 1,391 less at bats and trailed only by 11 WAR.  If I'm doing my math correctly, had Belle been able to have an equal number of at bats, he would have slightly exceeded Puckett's value.  

But Belle was a bad guy, threw baseballs at people, terrorized trick or treaters, was surly and didn't like the press.  So the press took joy in letting him drop off the ballot.  Don't get me wrong, I understand it and I'm not saying Belle is a shoe-in by any stretch.  But I feel like there have been less deserving players who have stayed on the ballot longer.  If Belle was an angel, he'd have a different legacy, IMO.

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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

No.  He should be.  If you're going to put in a guy like Kirby Puckett who's career was cut short then you have to look at Belle.

The differences here are that everyone loved Puckett and he had glaucoma.  Everyone hated Belle and he had a bad hip.  Glaucoma and loss of eyesight in a guy that everyone loves gets sympathy.  A bad hip on a guy that everyone hates gets ignored.

Puckett:  .318/.360/.477 for an .837 OPS, 124 OPS+  51.1 WAR.  2,304 hits, 207 homers, 1085 RBI in 7,244 at bats.  Pretty confident that if he played out his career he'd have gotten 3,000 hits.  Also worth mentioning his 6 Gold Gloves.  

Belle:  .295/.369/.564 for a .933 OPS, 144 OPS+ 40.1 WAR.  1,726 hits, 381 homers, 1,239 RBI in 5,853 at bats.  Pretty confident that if he played out his career he would have passed 500 homers, maybe approached 600.

Belle had 1,391 less at bats and trailed only by 11 WAR.  If I'm doing my math correctly, had Belle been able to have an equal number of at bats, he would have slightly exceeded Puckett's value.  

But Belle was a bad guy, threw baseballs at people, terrorized trick or treaters, was surly and didn't like the press.  So the press took joy in letting him drop off the ballot.  Don't get me wrong, I understand it and I'm not saying Belle is a shoe-in by any stretch.  But I feel like there have been less deserving players who have stayed on the ballot longer.  If Belle was an angel, he'd have a different legacy, IMO.

And it turns out Kirby wasn't the better person.

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So we cant agree who is the poster child for punk of the MLB, too many to chose from.

Can we agree that Brooks goes it at number 1 for the best guy to have play the game on and off the field? I know Roy Firestone would agree.

 

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:40 AM, Moose Milligan said:

Well, Belle is a good pick.

John Rocker.  Pete Rose (although I love Pete Rose).  Dibble.  Bonds.  Clemens.  A-Rod, although he has done a masterful job of remaking himself.  Mel Hall.  Canseco.  Milton Bradley.  Doc and Darryl.  Dave Kingman.  Rogers Hornsby.  Kenesaw Mountain Landis, according to some reports, was instrumental in keeping black people out of baseball.  

I mean, I hated Ortiz, too.  He was annoying as hell.  But other than playing for Boston, what'd he really do that was so reprehensible?  Smashed a dugout phone and took PEDs.  Big deal.

I must have missed the Mel Hall stories.   I recall him as a player but no recollection of his personality at all.

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23 hours ago, scOtt said:

Encarnacion. Tied with Ortiz anyways.

By my reckoning, Encarnacion is only the 3rd biggest a-hole on the Blue Jay teams of the middle of last decade.

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:40 AM, Moose Milligan said:

Well, Belle is a good pick.

John Rocker.  Pete Rose (although I love Pete Rose).  Dibble.  Bonds.  Clemens.  A-Rod, although he has done a masterful job of remaking himself.  Mel Hall.  Canseco.  Milton Bradley.  Doc and Darryl.  Dave Kingman.  Rogers Hornsby.  Kenesaw Mountain Landis, according to some reports, was instrumental in keeping black people out of baseball.  

I mean, I hated Ortiz, too.  He was annoying as hell.  But other than playing for Boston, what'd he really do that was so reprehensible?  Smashed a dugout phone and took PEDs.  Big deal.

Love your choices!

Not sure if one incident qualifies, but I always loved Garry Templeton's remark on playing in the All-Star Game, "If I ain't startin', I ain't departin'!"

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1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

It ain't pretty.  His Wikipedia breaks it down:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Hall

Thanks.  Had no idea.

Hmmm... Mel Hall.   Chad Curtis.   John Wetteland.   All Yankees at one point, all child molesters.   The Yankees should join the Big 10.

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14 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I must have missed the Mel Hall stories.   I recall him as a player but no recollection of his personality at all.

Post career.  Not too good.  
 
I do remember him hitting a bomb and taking a looongg trip around the bases.  When questioned about it, he quipped “what the hell do you want me to do? Sprint?”  Always found that comical.

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2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Thanks.  Had no idea.

Hmmm... Mel Hall.   Chad Curtis.   John Wetteland.   All Yankees at one point, all child molesters.   The Yankees should join the Big 10.

Chad Curtis is who I was thinking of when I was looking up Chuck Knoblauch.  Both scumbags.

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