Jump to content
Redskins Rick

Orioles' last 5 tool player?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Aglets said:

Surprised no one has mentioned Jones yet.

AJ had a period where he hit 25, 32, 33, 29, 27, 29 homers.   Hit in the .280s for awhile.  I guess he wasn't really known for success on the base paths stealing, but I still think it's worthy of being in the conversation.  He peaked at 16 steals.  His defense I suppose was somewhat argued about, but clearly he went through a period where he was a great CF.  We could argue about how short it was.

He was Capt10 America just a few short years ago. Complete Stud when needed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, weams said:

He was Capt10 America just a few short years ago. Complete Stud when needed. 

So I guess he wasn't needed in the 2012, 2014 and 2016 playoffs?  (combined -.65 WPA)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It was six posts down on Orioles talk.

But sure, I got you.

 

I'm watching it, but the extended commercial about a special commemorative set of Derek Jeter cards has left me woozy, nauseated and more than a little disoriented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm watching it, but the extended commercial about a special commemorative set of Derek Jeter cards has left me woozy, nauseated and more than a little disoriented.

I guess I could have put in a warning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now Hanser Alberto is my favorite Oriole. He's where baseball needs to go.  Move the mound back 3', deaden the ball, and make everyone swing a 38+ ounce bat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/1/2020 at 10:12 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm a huge Manny fan, but what records were those?  All I can come up with is most doubles by an American League player in the first half of a season since 1997.

Yeah, but that's one of the tougher ones to get.  Will it ever be broken? Or will his name, like Ripken for consecutive games played, or DiMaggio consecutive game hitting streak, go down in the annals of the sport as being the most prolific first half doubles hitter since 1997 of all time?  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/2/2020 at 12:56 PM, Moose Milligan said:

It's pretty dumb.  Also dumb is the whole notion that saying someone was a better defender than Brooks Robinson is sacreligious.  Now it's dumb to think that but the fact that people get so uppity when someone ventures to make that claim is obnoxious.

Step outside and say that.  No?  Didn't think so.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/2/2020 at 1:23 PM, Frobby said:

 

Manny arguably was as good or better than typical Brooks in 2013.     But Brooks was fabulous every year for a very long time.   There’s really no comparison defensively over the longer haul.     Though Manny’s arm is something to behold.   

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

But could he still out-hustle him?  ;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

Well it should have dropped off considerably by 2013, he was 76.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

I knew someone would make this joke.   Tried saying “typical Brooks” to cut it off.

Just going by Rtot, Manny’s best season of +34 was slightly better than Brooks’ best of +33.    But Manny has never had another season where he was +10 or higher, whereas Brooks had 13 other +10 or better, including seasons of +32, +23, and +21.    

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I knew someone would make this joke.   Tried saying “typical Brooks” to cut it off.

Just going by Rtot, Manny’s best season of +34 was slightly better than Brooks’ best of +33.    But Manny has never had another season where he was +10 or higher, whereas Brooks had 13 other +10 or better, including seasons of +32, +23, and +21.    

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

I'd also wager that the average exit velocity off the bat has increased enough to make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

Starters going 9 innings more and actually completing games, allow for more BIP. :)

Even your team's fireman/closer was expecting to pitch into the 3rd inning.

Lefty specialists for one batter was a concept not invented yet,

The days before the DH, even the AL played small ball, and bunting the running over, or the hit and run, sacrifice an out for movement of the runner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • Here's some video, and more importantly some SOUNDS.  
    • #50THANNIVERSARY On this day in 1970 the Orioles lost to the Detroit Tigers 4-2 in Tiger Stadium.  Winning pitcher Les Cain held the Birds to just 4 hits on the day by Don Buford (2), Davey Johnson and Andy Etchebarren.  Jim Palmer took the loss, his sixth, with a 6.0 inning effort in which he surrendered 3 runs on 9 hits and struck out 2.  Palmer also surrendered a homerun to Don Wert. BOX SCORE 
    • How much did a September call-up help Schoop?    He made the OD roster the next year and put up a mighty .598 OPS.    Of course, his 4th year of Arb wouldn’t have mattered, the way things worked out.   But I’d still say he would have had more trade value in July 2018 if teams had an extra year of potential control to play with. I don’t want to belabor the point.    I’m sure with some thought I could come up with 25 examples of players who struggled the year after a September call-up but turned out to be good players, and 25 examples of guys who did really well after a September call-up.    None of that is going to change anyone’s mind.     At the end of the day, it’s unprovable whether a call-up would have benefited Mountcastle, and we won’t know for 6 years whether an extra year of control would have been important or not.    At some point we just need to move on and stop obsessing with this point.     
    • If he isn’t a major league player then none of this matters anyway. Great point. Obviously I agree he could benefit from seeing pitching and learning from it. I said as much in my post. Selfishly I wanted Mountcastle up sometime in the middle of the year last year. I thought he was ready. I think the odds are more remote the O’s see harm down the line, meanwhile, the potential benefit that you can effectively extend your competitive window by a year is signficant.
    • It isn’t about salary as much as it is about control. So it does matter. 
    • The argument is, if you are a service time manipulated guy, you are definitely a super 2 guy. So you are going to be one of the relatively rare guys who is under arbitration for 4 years. So, in the worst case scenario where you don’t end up that good, you aren’t tendered that long, so it never mattered. In the best case scenario, guys who are actually good enough to be tendered that long are essentially being paid free agent prices in their 4th year of arbitration anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. At least it doesn’t matter enough to hold a guy back. 
    • How much did it help Means? I think Mountcastle could have benefited from facing major league pitching, perhaps it would have helped him realize that just because you can make contact with a pitch it doesn't mean you should swing at it.  He also could have used more reps in the field. Going into the offseason with that kind of experience to build off of couldn't have hurt. As for the extra control?  Will he: Still be a major league player? Still an Oriole? Worth paying Arb 4? Not playing under an extension? All of the above assume no changes in the CBA.  I think the odds are pretty remote the O's see any benefit down the line.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...