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Redskins Rick

Orioles' last 5 tool player?

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1 hour ago, TommyPickles said:

Adam Jones at his peak sure was.

Between the 2012 and 2013 seasons, he averaged: 15 SB, 31.5 HR, .286 AVG.  He was an All-Star, earned a Gold Glove, and finished in the top 13 in MVP voting in both years.

.286 avg is a bit low to be consider a tool?
I know Adam was fast and had a very good glove and an good ability to cover ground, not sure, his arm strength was there.

 

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5 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I wouldn't say Adam was a contact hitter. In fact, it was his biggest weakness.

I'd say his strike zone judgement was. 

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On 6/2/2020 at 1:05 PM, Redskins Rick said:

Better Healthcare.

Check this out:

Average Life Expectancy

1940 = 60.8 (Male)  and 65.2 (Female)

1950 = 65.5                      71.1

1960 = 66.6                      73.1

1970 = 67.1                      74.7

1980 =  70.0                     77.8

1990 = 71.8                      78.9

1998 = 73.8                      79.5

 

A lot of that had to do with people dying as babies. Deaths of ball players most likely to a lot of them smoking and eating meat heavy diet.

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On 6/4/2020 at 3:27 PM, Frobby said:

As to who is a five-tool player, it all depends what you mean.    Does the player have to be outstanding in all five areas, or is a little above average OK?    If the latter, then sure I’d put Adam Jones in that category.    

Being a five-tool player may be overrated, though.    Frank Robinson didn’t have an above average arm.    Does anyone think Jones was the better player?   Maybe we need another category, excellent players with no glaring weakness.    Frank fits that category.   
 

 

A corner outfielder is obviously going to have weaknesses or he wouldn’t be a corner outfielder. Well that is unless he is teammates with Willie Mays.

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13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Counterpoint- Mark Reynolds.

Strikeout rate is the combination of selectivity and ability to put the bat on the ball.  Maybe a little counter-intuitively being very selective usually makes your strikeout rate go up, so the K rate vs selectivity curve (often?) has a minimum in the middle.  Willie Keeler struck out as few as 2-3 times in a full season, but his walk numbers would slide perfectly into Adam Jones' career.  Because if you're taking borderline pitches you're striking out a lot more than that.

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10 hours ago, atomic said:

Wasn’t Felix Pie a five tool player?

Arguably, yes.  But it comes down to our definitions.  Do you get credit for a tool if you can't use that tool for good?  Lots of players like Pie, Billy Rowell, Billy Beane, they had lots of tools, but were missing the baseball smarts tool so in the end none of the physical stuff really mattered.

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4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Strikeout rate is the combination of selectivity and ability to put the bat on the ball.  Maybe a little counter-intuitively being very selective usually makes your strikeout rate go up, so the K rate vs selectivity curve (often?) has a minimum in the middle.  Willie Keeler struck out as few as 2-3 times in a full season, but his walk numbers would slide perfectly into Adam Jones' career.  Because if you're taking borderline pitches you're striking out a lot more than that.

I was talking about how often I remember him failing to make contact with pitches in the strike zone.

 

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was talking about how often I remember him failing to make contact with pitches in the strike zone.

 

Yes, that's true.  Reynolds has that weird combination of being very selective but also about a 30 hit tool.  What a strange collection of abilities.  30 hit, 70 power, 60 selectivity, 40 speed, 25 fielding.  I think Earl would have figured out a way to get him 400 great plate appearances a year, leveraging the stuff he does well and minimizing the rest.  He would have been a bizarro Gary Roenicke.

Or... some position player version of Don Stanhouse.

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On 6/5/2020 at 8:25 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't think you can call a guy "elite hit" when his career high in BA is .306.

I always thought of "tool" more as a prospect's potential regardless of what he does with the tool in the majors, and I am inclined to look more at OBP/OPS than AVG. Still you are right, he was probably more plus than elite as a prospect. 

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14 hours ago, atomic said:

Wasn’t Felix Pie a five tool player?

That is exactly who I thought of.  Too bad he couldnt figure things out.

* Never mind, he did figure things out.  Last year he slashed .363/.449/.617 for an OPS of 1.066! with 22 HRs but only 3 stolen bases but then again he is 34 years old and it was in Mexico

 

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7 hours ago, sevastras said:

That is exactly who I thought of.  Too bad he couldnt figure things out.

* Never mind, he did figure things out.  Last year he slashed .363/.449/.617 for an OPS of 1.066! with 22 HRs but only 3 stolen bases but then again he is 34 years old and it was in Mexico

 

Roughly AA average talent level, wider spread in talent, and at least a few parks where the run context makes Coors Field look like Dodger Stadium.  But it's good to see Pie having success.

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