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Tony-OH

2020 Orioles draft review: Elias ends up with three first round talents

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54 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

Again, I respect your opinion.  Thanks for referring to my stuff as meaningless and biased.  I respect your opinion. I’m allowed to not like a certain player based on any reasons I have.  Meaningless or actual.  Just like you.  I respect your opinion and wouldn’t label your justification as meaningless or biased.  I have no bias.  I’ve never seen Martin play, only interviewed several times.  Based on that I was less than impressed.  When I watch guys already in the system I’m almost always impressed.  That’s a lack of a fit right there.  To me.

If your years of experience watching Martin and interacting with O’s players told you something different, I’d listen.  And I’d be open to learning somethings from another person.  
 

I’d hope anyone in a management position does things a bit different than posters on a website.  I got an Austin Martin card in a pack this afternoon and I’d be glad to send it to you free of charge.  
 

EDB0655F-86EE-4211-8F55-55E548BFFC46.jpeg

What kind of card is that? Those look pretty nifty. 

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3 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

Wow... "...a fella like that."  Interesting. So, as you say, "Everything I have seen from Kjerstad is a guy who has taken every opportunity to not only make himself better by facing varied competition but also has a great desire to be a great teammate in the clubhouse." Yet, nothing you have seen points to the exact same from Martin? 

That was simple enough to find. 

Here's more from SI.com, 

Hmmmm.... again, interesting.

Everything I've read and listened to from every major analyst, coach, or teammate paint Martin as a leader that pushes his teammates to be their best.  He wants to win badly and has worked very hard to get where he is, while trying to get his teammates or "family" as he calls them, to rise with him.  He has played against the best competition at all levels. Talent aside, he is everything you say Kjerstad is, yet you see Kjerstad an an upstanding fella and Martin as, well, a fella like that... a red flag, because...? Oh yeah, Martin wore a tee shirt supporting a just cause that every GM in baseball supported during the draft. Or is it because you believe Kjerstad comes from, "exceptional families," and will make us proud, but Martin does not and will not? 

I replied because you clearly painted one player one way, and another in a different way, by using many comparable terms and phrases. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume you haven't read enough about Martin and his qualities.

Those are quotes from others and from those who are selling the kid to scouts and to prognosticators. I'd say they are a bit biased dont you think? What are they going to say and why at that point would the say anything negative at all? My point is find one interview where Martin has said that teammates and comradeship matter and are an important part of his game. You can't. Meanwhile Kjerstad goes out of his way to say that's one of the parts about his game and his personality. I'm damn thrilled with Kjerstad and I do believe you will be too. I think he fits the culture perfectly and will be great in the clubhouse. Guys like Mancini and Means and Adley and Grayson are the type of guys I think Elias is building a culture around. I think Kjerstad will fit in perfectly with that group and they will all be better because of it. Martin had some red flags outside of his personality anyway. He had no real position at Vandy. He couldnt lock down a single one in college. His arm is weak so centerfielder would be a defensive liability, he couldnt lock down third or short in college so he'd be a liability there and he didn't display much power. He is fast but not that fast. Hes more instinctual and he runs the bases well. These are all coachable but the things he lacks you cant coach. 

 

Time will tell but I am thrilled with Kjerstad and the fact that we got a deal on a better player to get two more is the smart strategy for a shortened draft. Elias hit a homerun 3-5 years from now I think you will feel the same way.

I also think he really wanted Bitsko and the fact he was taken two picks earlier kinda threw a wrench in our plans but we ended up better up the middle and with more power potential bats but that's the uncertainty you get with drafting against top teams in the majors. Bitsko was one of those cant miss guys and others thought so as well.

I also didn't realize saying "a fella like that" was an affront to anyone. I only meant that it is indicative of his personality. Everything matters when you have the number two pick. You can afford to split hairs. I look at body language too. I look at family. I look at background. It all matters when figuring out who someone really is versus who someone wants you to believe. I have to do this for a living. It's part of what I get paid to do. I am good at it and i think i have Martin pegged. Time will tell but i have strong convictions for why i am right.

Edited by Explosivo

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4 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

Those are quotes from others and from those who are selling the kid to scouts and to prognosticators. I'd say they are a bit biased dont you think? What are they going to say and why at that point would the say anything negative at all? My point is find one interview where Martin has said that teammates and comradeship matter and are an important part of his game. You can't. Meanwhile Kjerstad goes out of his way to say that's one of the parts about his game and his personality. I'm damn thrilled with Kjerstad and I do believe you will be too. I think he fits the culture perfectly and will be great in the clubhouse. Guys like Mancini and Means and Adley and Grayson are the type of guys I think Elias is building a culture around. I think Kjerstad will fit in perfectly with that group and they will all be better because of it. Martin had some red flags outside of his personality anyway. He had no real position at Vandy. He couldnt lock down a single one in college. His arm is weak so centerfielder would be a defensive liability, he couldnt lock down third or short in college so he'd be a liability there and he didn't display much power. He is fast but not that fast. Hes more instinctual and he runs the bases well. These are all coachable but the things he lacks you cant coach. 

 

Time will tell but I am thrilled with Kjerstad and the fact that we got a deal on a better player to get two more is the smart strategy for a shortened draft. Elias hit a homerun 3-5 years from now I think you will feel the same way.

I also think he really wanted Bitsko and the fact he was taken two picks earlier kinda threw a wrench in our plans but we ended up better up the middle and with more power potential bats but that's the uncertainty you get with drafting against top teams in the majors. Bitsko was one of those cant miss guys and others thought so as well.

Smh... I didn't realize that everyone who has said he is a great teammate are exaggerating the truth. A bunch of phonies and liars obviously. AND Martin never conducted an interview that discussed that particular topic. Wow. Gotcha. You even question his talents... despite all evidence to the contrary. Your words and agenda are revealing.  I'm done with this. 

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3 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

Wow... "...a fella like that."  Interesting. So, as you say, "Everything I have seen from Kjerstad is a guy who has taken every opportunity to not only make himself better by facing varied competition but also has a great desire to be a great teammate in the clubhouse." Yet, nothing you have seen points to the exact same from Martin? 

That was simple enough to find. 

Here's more from SI.com, 

Hmmmm.... again, interesting.

Everything I've read and listened to from every major analyst, coach, or teammate paint Martin as a leader that pushes his teammates to be their best.  He wants to win badly and has worked very hard to get where he is, while trying to get his teammates or "family" as he calls them, to rise with him.  He has played against the best competition at all levels. Talent aside, he is everything you say Kjerstad is, yet you see Kjerstad an an upstanding fella and Martin as, well, a fella like that... a red flag, because...? Oh yeah, Martin wore a tee shirt supporting a just cause that every GM in baseball supported during the draft. Or is it because you believe Kjerstad comes from, "exceptional families," and will make us proud, but Martin does not and will not? 

I replied because you clearly painted one player one way, and another in a different way, by using many comparable terms and phrases. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume you haven't read enough about Martin and his qualities.

I'm not the only who feels his arm is iffy and his power is iffy. These are things he displayed as a player. He also is a player without a position. His best use is second base. I'm good on a non power threat second baseman who can get on a base. That type of player does not differentiate your team and it certainly isn't worth a #2 pick. So then you start looking at intangibles and there are red flags for me. That grades him lower in my book but what do I know? I'm not a scout. I'm just a fan of the O's and strongly want to share a world series with my dad before he kicks the bucket. Of course I painted each player differently. It's called analysis.  

Neither has Kjerstad. They asked him what he brought to the table, he said three things, my power bat, my athleticism and my ability to be a good teammate. Go look at the interview with Martin done in january 24th. He was asked the same exact question and he did not say being a good teammate. I'm just going by gut feeling and my the limited information I have before me. Vandy coach is a homer who is selling his kid. Especially so close to the draft, there is no way he would choose to say something negative about his guy. No way, no how. That would negatively impact his player, his reputation with other scouts and potentially future recruiting prospects. You can be done with this if youd like but I asked you a simple question. Show me where Martin has saying being a good teammate is an important part of his game. You cant. I've looked. He says he wants to be on the team, he will play anywhere the team asks and he feels what he brings to the team will make them better. No where does anyone else factor into anything he says. Hes a competitor, that's neat but it can cut both ways. I work with lawyers to help them pick juries for murder trials. I get paid handsomely to do so because I'm damn good at what I do. This is what I see in Martin. This my read on Kjerstad. This is my read on the type of people they are. I could be wrong but I dont think I am.

Edited by Explosivo

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If Bitsko was an actual 17 year old can't miss guy he wouldn't have lasted until Tampa's pick.

Good prospect sure, but hardly can't miss.  He pitched 33 innings in HS.

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If Bitsko was an actual 17 year old can't miss guy he wouldn't have lasted until Tampa's pick.

Good prospect sure, but hardly can't miss.  He pitched 33 innings in HS.

I hear you and you're right. You cant really say cant miss without at least a full season but the tools are there and Elias has shown with Grayson that he has an eye for elite high school pitching. Cikelo (sp?) The orioles scouting director made allusions that a pitcher was taken before they got their ability to do so. I only put two and two together to determine that was likely Bitsko. But you're right. Man, I really have to watch my P's and Q's with you guys as yall are prone to pick apart every word and apply your own definition. I like it though. I will learn to communicate my thoughts to fellow O's fans in better ways as to express my thoughts clearly to all.

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2 hours ago, interloper said:

Callis has the Os #4 in best drafts.

 

So I guess the question is if Elias had picked Martin or Lacy (both 60 rated overall players)  and picked the next best player with each pick would the O's draft be rated #2?

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1 minute ago, wildcard said:

So I guess the question is if Elias had picked Martin or Lacy (both 60 rated overall players)  and picked the next best player with each pick would the O's draft be rated #2?

I mean they could have simply picked whomever the Marlins were going to pick and finished with the second best draft.

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38 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

I hear you and you're right. You cant really say cant miss without at least a full season but the tools are there and Elias has shown with Grayson that he has an eye for elite high school pitching. Cikelo (sp?) The orioles scouting director made allusions that a pitcher was taken before they got their ability to do so. I only put two and two together to determine that was likely Bitsko. But you're right. Man, I really have to watch my P's and Q's with you guys as yall are prone to pick apart every word and apply your own definition. I like it though. I will learn to communicate my thoughts to fellow O's fans in better ways as to express my thoughts clearly to all.

While I'm picking at nits, Elias didn't select Grayson.

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6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

While I'm picking at nits, Elias didn't select Grayson.

That is not a nit to Dan Duquette.

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7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That is not a nit to Dan Duquette.

Well, I remember a lot of folks (including me) weren’t thrilled with the Rodriguez pick when it was made.    There were 2-3 more highly touted pitchers on the board at the time.      But Rodriguez has proved Rajsich knew what he was doing.    Hopefully this year’s draft class will do they same.   

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1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

I hear you and you're right. You cant really say cant miss without at least a full season but the tools are there and Elias has shown with Grayson that he has an eye for elite high school pitching. Cikelo (sp?) The orioles scouting director made allusions that a pitcher was taken before they got their ability to do so. I only put two and two together to determine that was likely Bitsko. But you're right. Man, I really have to watch my P's and Q's with you guys as yall are prone to pick apart every word and apply your own definition. I like it though. I will learn to communicate my thoughts to fellow O's fans in better ways as to express my thoughts clearly to all.

Yes. You do need to watch your Ps and Qs.  Proper social discourse is required.  No politics is discussed either. Talk all the baseball you want and enjoy. But don’t project any personal feeling about politics or society on players. Unless you are reporting racist tweets and I’d hate it if you start doing that also. 

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25 minutes ago, weams said:

Yes. You do need to watch your Ps and Qs.  Proper social discourse is required.  No politics is discussed either. Talk all the baseball you want and enjoy. But don’t project any personal feeling about politics or society on players. Unless you are reporting racist tweets and I’d hate it if you start doing that 

 I wasn't. Did you not read my response? I said it didn't matter what side of the political spectrum his statement was about. It was the fact he made a statement at all. No other top prospect chose to do so. I'm merely positing that that means something about that particular player. I could care less what his politics are. I am merely showing that it is a reflection of his character for him to make any message at all. That's it. 

Edited by Explosivo

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23 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

 I wasn't. Did you not read my response? I said it didn't matter what side of the political spectrum his statement was about. It was the fact he made a statement at all. No other top prospect chose to do so. I'm merely positing that that means something about that particular player. I could care less what his politics are. I am merely showing that it is a reflection of his character for him to make any message at all. That's it. 

Good. 

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1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

I could care less what his politics are. I am merely showing that it is a reflection of his character for him to make any message at all. That's it. 

I don’t see that at all.     I’m going to stay out of politics, but I don’t have a problem with athletes taking a political stand and I certainly don’t see it as a negative on their character when they do.    If this even was a political statement, which is debatable.    

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