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Means has arm fatigue (Milone starts opening day)

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1 hour ago, weams said:

Raise the mound. Take Second Base, Shortstop, and Catcher out as offensive positions. Bunt every time through the order.  Bob was one of the best pitchers of All Time. Best. 

I remember Fergie Jenkins taking about 2 seconds between pitches. He wasted no time at all and pitched a tremendous number of innings. His first year with the Rangers, he went 25-12. 37 decisions!  41 starts! 328 innings! And yet he still lost the Cy Young. 

There were men in those days!

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9 minutes ago, Philip said:

I remember Fergie Jenkins taking about 2 seconds between pitches. He wasted no time at all and pitched a tremendous number of innings. His first year with the Rangers, he went 25-12. 37 decisions!  41 starts! 328 innings! And yet he still lost the Cy Young. 

There were men in those days!

There was no analytics back then, no magic 100 pitch rule that said everyone sucks after 100 pitches...They just pitched and came back three days later and pitched again. I acknowledge the game has changed....bigger, stronger players at all positions but we seem to let data apply to all and neglect the possible outliers that exist.

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15 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

There was no analytics back then, no magic 100 pitch rule that said everyone sucks after 100 pitches...They just pitched and came back three days later and pitched again. I acknowledge the game has changed....bigger, stronger players at all positions but we seem to let data apply to all and neglect the possible outliers that exist.

Fergie Jenkins was one of my very favorites, but that year he lost the Cy Young to catfish Hunter, who was no slouch, and Nolan Ryan routinely pitched 300 innings or more every year.

And they weren’t the only ones, either, they’re just the ones that dominate our memory because they are Hall of Famer’s. But I wonder what they would’ve done if they had had access the same resources that benefit the guys today? Would their careers have been appreciably longer? I actually don’t think so, Because the analysts would probably have suggested that they pitch less. Fewer innings, fewer pitches per outing but not necessarily more or better career results.

There is a learned article somewhere in here, and I hope somebody writes it.

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Today, most baseball players have only played one sport since eight/nine years old.  here is a simple list of thos three mentioned above and what they played.  It has been noted by several publications that this is the reason there is more injuries to pitchers in baseball as they exclusively use the same muscle groups at a constant level and length of time without toning those other groups used in other sports.

37 minutes ago, Philip said:

Fergie Jenkins was one of my very favorites, but that year he lost the Cy Young to catfish Hunter, who was no slouch, and Nolan Ryan routinely pitched 300 innings or more every year.

And they weren’t the only ones, either, they’re just the ones that dominate our memory because they are Hall of Famer’s. But I wonder what they would’ve done if they had had access the same resources that benefit the guys today? Would their careers have been appreciably longer? I actually don’t think so, Because the analysts would probably have suggested that they pitch less. Fewer innings, fewer pitches per outing but not necessarily more or better career results.

There is a learned article somewhere in here, and I hope somebody writes it.

Today, most baseball players have only played one sport since eight/nine years old.  Here is a simple list of those three mentioned above and what they played other than Baseball.  It has been noted by several publications that this is the reason there is more injuries to pitchers in baseball as they exclusively use the same muscle groups at a constant level and length of time without toning those other groups used in other sports.  https://thesportsinstitute.com/do-single-sport-athletes-have-more-overuse-injuries/

Ferguson Jenkins - A talented athlete, Jenkins competed in track and field, ice hockey, and basketball in his school years, lettering five times.

Catfish Hunter -He played linebacker and offensive tackle in football as well as shortstop, cleanup batter, and pitcher in baseball.

Nolan Ryan - In junior high school, Ryan could throw a softball over 100 yards. After ninth grade, Ryan quit playing football after a tackle and fumble caused by future NFL running back Norm Bulaich made him decide to focus on baseball.

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28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Anyone else shocked this is Tommy Milone's first opening day start?

Not me

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I wonder if Millone will be used as more of an opener here. Of course who is to say how long he will last period. Eshelman to follow. 

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6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Worst OD starter ever for the Os?

Has to be.  He was slated to be 5th starter a couple of days ago. 

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Anyone else shocked this is Tommy Milone's first opening day start?

Shocked because someone asked him to do it, sure

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13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Worst OD starter ever for the Os?

I don't know anything about Kretlow, White, Brown, Johnson, or Harshman.

Modern day guys who weren't great:  Dave Schmidt, Pat Hentgen (was past his prime), Millwood, Cashner.

Could be.

 

Season Pitcher Decision Final
score
Opponent Location Ref(s)
1954 Don Larsen L 0–3 Detroit Tigers Tiger Stadium [4][5][9][13]
1955 Lou Kretlow L 5–12 Washington Senators Griffith Stadium [4][6][10][14]
1956 Bill Wight L 1–8 Boston Red Sox Fenway Park [15]
1957 Hal Brown ND (W) 7–6 Washington Senators Griffith Stadium [16]
1958 Connie Johnson ND (W) 6–1 Washington Senators Memorial Stadium [17]
1959 Jack Harshman L 2–9 Washington Senators Griffith Stadium [18]
1960 Jerry Walker ND (W) 3–2 Washington Senators Memorial Stadium [19]
1961 Milt Pappas L 2–7 Los Angeles Angels Memorial Stadium [20]
1962 Billy Hoeft ND (L) 6–7 New York Yankees Yankee Stadium [21]
1963 Steve Barber W 3–1 Washington Senators District of Columbia Stadium [22]
1964 Milt Pappas (2) ND (W) 5–3 Chicago White Sox Comiskey Park [23]
1965 Steve Barber (2) L 3–5 Chicago White Sox Memorial Stadium [24]
1966 Steve Barber (3) ND (W) 5–4 Boston Red Sox Fenway Park [25]
1967 Dave McNally ND (W) 6–3 Minnesota Twins Memorial Stadium [26]
1968 Tom Phoebus W 3–1 Oakland Athletics Memorial Stadium [27]
1969** Dave McNally (2) ND (L) 4–5 Boston Red Sox Memorial Stadium [28]
1970 Dave McNally (3) W 8–2 Cleveland Indians Cleveland Stadium [29]
1971** Dave McNally (4) W 3–2 Washington Senators Memorial Stadium [30]
1972 Pat Dobson W 3–1 New York Yankees Memorial Stadium [31]
1973* Dave McNally (5) W 10–0 Milwaukee Brewers Memorial Stadium [32]
1974* Jim Palmer W 3–2 Detroit Tigers Memorial Stadium [33]
1975 Jim Palmer (2) W 10–0 Detroit Tigers Tiger Stadium [34]
1976 Jim Palmer (3) W 1–0 Boston Red Sox Memorial Stadium [35]
1977 Jim Palmer (4) L 1–2 Texas Rangers Memorial Stadium [36]
1978 Mike Flanagan L 3–11 Milwaukee Brewers County Stadium [37]
1979** Jim Palmer (5) W 5–3 Chicago White Sox Memorial Stadium [38]
1980 Jim Palmer (6) W 5–3 Chicago White Sox Comiskey Park [39]
1981 Steve Stone W 5–3 Kansas City Royals Memorial Stadium [40]
1982 Dennis Martínez ND (W) 13–5 Kansas City Royals Memorial Stadium [41]
1983 Dennis Martínez (2) L 2–7 Kansas City Royals Memorial Stadium [42]
1984 Scott McGregor L 2–5 Chicago White Sox Memorial Stadium [43]
1985 Storm Davis ND (W) 4–2 Texas Rangers Memorial Stadium [44]
1986 Mike Flanagan (2) L 4–6 Cleveland Indians Memorial Stadium [45]
1987 Mike Boddicker ND (W) 2–1 Texas Rangers Memorial Stadium [46]
1988 Mike Boddicker (2) L 0–12 Milwaukee Brewers Memorial Stadium [47]
1989 Dave Schmidt ND (W) 5–4 Boston Red Sox Memorial Stadium [48]
1990 Bob Milacki ND (W) 7–6 Kansas City Royals Royals Stadium [49]
1991 Jeff Ballard L 1–9 Chicago White Sox Memorial Stadium [50]
1992 Rick Sutcliffe W 2–0 Cleveland Indians Camden Yards [51]
1993 Rick Sutcliffe (2) L 4–7 Texas Rangers Camden Yards [52]
1994 Mike Mussina W 6–3 Kansas City Royals Camden Yards [53]
1995 Mike Mussina (2) ND (L) 1–5 Kansas City Royals Kauffman Stadium [54]
1996* Mike Mussina (3) W 4–2 Kansas City Royals Camden Yards [55]
1997* Jimmy Key W 4–2 Kansas City Royals Camden Yards [56]
1998 Mike Mussina (4) L 1–4 Kansas City Royals Camden Yards [57]
1999 Mike Mussina (5) W 10–7 Tampa Bay Devil Rays Camden Yards [58]
2000 Mike Mussina (6) L 1–4 Cleveland Indians Camden Yards [59]
2001 Pat Hentgen ND (W) 2–1 Boston Red Sox Camden Yards [60]
2002 Scott Erickson W 10–3 New York Yankees Camden Yards [61][62]
2003 Rodrigo López ND (W) 6–5 Cleveland Indians Camden Yards [63][64]
2004 Sidney Ponson W 7–2 Boston Red Sox Camden Yards [65][66]
2005 Rodrigo López (2) W 4–0 Oakland Athletics Camden Yards [67][68]
2006 Rodrigo López (3) W 9–6 Tampa Bay Devil Rays Camden Yards [69][70]
2007 Érik Bédard L 4–7 Minnesota Twins Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome [71][72]
2008 Jeremy Guthrie L 2–6 Tampa Bay Rays Camden Yards [73][74]
2009 Jeremy Guthrie (2) W 10–5 New York Yankees Camden Yards [11]
2010 Kevin Millwood ND (L) 3–4 Tampa Bay Rays Tropicana Field [7]
2011 Jeremy Guthrie (3) W 3–1 Tampa Bay Rays Tropicana Field  
2012* Jake Arrieta W 3–2 Minnesota Twins Camden Yards  
2013 Jason Hammel W 4–3 Tampa Bay Rays Tropicana Field  
2014* Chris Tillman W 2–1 Boston Red Sox Camden Yards  
2015 Chris Tillman (2) W 6–2 Tampa Bay Rays Tropicana Field  
2016* Chris Tillman (3) W 3-2 Minnesota Twins Camden Yards  
2017 Kevin Gausman ND (W) 3-2 Toronto Blue Jays Camden Yards  
2018 Dylan Bundy ND (W) 3-2 Minnesota Twins Camden Yards  
2019 Andrew Cashner L 2-7 New York Yankees Yankee Stadium
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I still think we should have traded Means in the offseason when his trade value was highest.

Edited by fitzi22
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9 minutes ago, fitzi22 said:

I still think we should have traded Means in the offseason when his trade value was highest.

I doubt Means ever had much trade value.

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