The defense thread, 2020

[Ruzious]

9 minutes ago, Bubble Buddy said:

Not what I said, although I could have been more clear with the last sentence.

Guys can develop in the majors, but I imagine you want them at a certain threshold to start with. And for a guy like Mountcastle that doesn't have any passable defensive position to speak of, I'm OK if they want to try to build up his defensive skillset so he's not destined to be a DH. 

We know with absolute certainty that Smith is awful, and he's participating in the failure of our pitchers.  We simply cannot keep playing him if management cares about the product on the field.  I find it hard to believe that either Diaz or Mountcastle could be worse, and there's no reason to believe playing either of them will hurt their development.  And they will likely continue improving while Smith will not - by this point in his career he most likely is what he is.       

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, their was a story about him in which someone asked if he wanted a shrimp cocktail and he replied "I don't drink.".  He wasn't joking.

I had not heard that story before, but you are correct.   He apparently said a few other things, according to SABR:

• In 1984, while dining with his Phillies teammates, Stone was asked if he wanted an order of shrimp cocktail. “No thanks,” he replied. “I don’t drink.”21
• In Pittsburgh a year later Stone, at the time mired in a horrible slump, was having trouble sleeping at night. A teammate suggested that he try counting sheep, to which Stone replied, “They don’t have sheep in Pittsburgh.”22
• Returning to the United States from Venezuela after a season of winter ball, Stone explained that he left his television behind “because it only had Spanish stations.”23
• https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jeff-stone/
•  

[Bubble Buddy]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And you think a couple of weeks in minor league camp is the difference?

I don't.

Fair enough. I think the reps and coaching could make a difference, especially for a guy that's learning a new position or two and hasn't found one he's even average at yet. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I had not heard that story before, but you are correct.   He apparently said a few other things, according to SABR:

• In 1984, while dining with his Phillies teammates, Stone was asked if he wanted an order of shrimp cocktail. “No thanks,” he replied. “I don’t drink.”21
• In Pittsburgh a year later Stone, at the time mired in a horrible slump, was having trouble sleeping at night. A teammate suggested that he try counting sheep, to which Stone replied, “They don’t have sheep in Pittsburgh.”22
• Returning to the United States from Venezuela after a season of winter ball, Stone explained that he left his television behind “because it only had Spanish stations.”23
• https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jeff-stone/
•  

It's nice when the old memory doesn't fail you.

[Bubble Buddy]

12 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

We know with absolute certainty that Smith is awful, and he's participating in the failure of our pitchers.  We simply cannot keep playing him if management cares about the product on the field.  I find it hard to believe that either Diaz or Mountcastle could be worse, and there's no reason to believe playing either of them will hurt their development.  And they will likely continue improving while Smith will not - by this point in his career he most likely is what he is.       

I agree that Smith is awful defensively.  

I just am more measured with when we bring valued guys up and am OK if management wants to promote more conservatively because I do think you can throw a guy into a situation where it hurts his development. 

Diaz could be a safer choice than Mountcastle, if I'm going with the theory that they are trying to give Mountcastle a defensive foundation.

I still wish that Diaz had swung the bat a bit better last year, but at least he's played outfield for a minute. 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Bubble Buddy

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Bubble Buddy said:

I agree that Smith is awful defensively.  

I just am more measured with when we bring valued guys up and am OK if management wants to promote more conservatively because I do think you can throw a guy into a situation where it hurts his development. 

Diaz could be a safer choice than Mountcastle, if I'm going with the theory that they are trying to give Mountcastle a defensive foundation.

I still wish that Diaz had swung the bat a bit better last year, but at least he's played outfield for a minute. 

 

I think they're more likely to end up shooting the confidence of Diaz and Mountcastle by being so slow to promote them.  Most good players need to be given a challenge to improve and get frustrated when they aren't given a challenge.  

[Bubble Buddy]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I think they're more likely to end up shooting the confidence of Diaz and Mountcastle by being so slow to promote them.  Most good players need to be given a challenge to improve and get frustrated when they aren't given a challenge.  

I think that’s fair as well. 

[Sports Guy]

Listening to Hyde on the radio yesterday, he said that all of his catchers are taking ground balls at other positions when they aren’t starting at C in that day.  

He wants his players to be versatile.

I would like to know what how Sisco looks at other positions.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Listening to Hyde on the radio yesterday, he said that all of his catchers are taking ground balls at other positions when they aren’t starting at C in that day.  

He wants his players to be versatile.

I would like to know what how Sisco looks at other positions.

I'd like to know what he looks like against a left handed starting pitcher.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd like to know what he looks like against a left handed starting pitcher.

Yea, it’s hard to complain when Severino is hitting like he is but I certainly want to see Sisco in the lineup more often.

[SteveA]

On 8/17/2020 at 1:31 PM, Can_of_corn said:

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, their was a story about him in which someone asked if he wanted a shrimp cocktail and he replied "I don't drink.".  He wasn't joking.

He also was the guy that asked if the moon over the stadium was the same one in the sky back where he grew up.

[CarrRun49]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:01 PM, Bubble Buddy said:

I agree that Smith is awful defensively.  

I just am more measured with when we bring valued guys up and am OK if management wants to promote more conservatively because I do think you can throw a guy into a situation where it hurts his development. 

Diaz could be a safer choice than Mountcastle, if I'm going with the theory that they are trying to give Mountcastle a defensive foundation.

I still wish that Diaz had swung the bat a bit better last year, but at least he's played outfield for a minute. 

 

The guy has yet to play 1 AAA game.  How is he a safer choice? 

[DrungoHazewood]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:55 PM, Frobby said:

I had not heard that story before, but you are correct.   He apparently said a few other things, according to SABR:

• In 1984, while dining with his Phillies teammates, Stone was asked if he wanted an order of shrimp cocktail. “No thanks,” he replied. “I don’t drink.”21
• In Pittsburgh a year later Stone, at the time mired in a horrible slump, was having trouble sleeping at night. A teammate suggested that he try counting sheep, to which Stone replied, “They don’t have sheep in Pittsburgh.”22
• Returning to the United States from Venezuela after a season of winter ball, Stone explained that he left his television behind “because it only had Spanish stations.”23
• https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jeff-stone/

I remember a post-game interview on the radio with Stone, in what had to be 1988.  It stood out because it went on for several minutes and I didn't understand a word he said, it was gibberish.  I hesitated remarking about this because maybe English isn't his first language, and that would just be mean.

Stone was born and grew up in Missouri, a few hours north of Memphis.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

The guy has yet to play 1 AAA game.  How is he a safer choice? 

It's a near certainty that Diaz is a better defensive outfielder than Mountcastle.  He's always been an outfielder.  Mountcastle has always been a guy searching for a position.  But it is also very likely that Mountcastle is a better hitter.

[Frobby]

8/18, Game 23

The Jays scored the winning run when Pedro Severino couldn’t handle a one-bounce throw Chris Davis made from the seat of his pants after making a diving stop of a grounder.   It was scored an error on Davis, but to me the blame was squarely Severino’s.   I guess any bounced throw gets scored as an error on whoever threw the ball, but this was an accurate one-hopper with a true bounce, in plenty of time to get the runner, made while Davis was literally sitting on his fanny.     Charging him with an error there is criminal.

 https://www.mlb.com/gameday/blue-jays-vs-orioles/2020/08/18/631681#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=631681

(Scroll to “Travis Shaw scores go-ahead run”)