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Elias: emulating the Rays?

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8 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

1). Did you really just mention Cashners stats 2 years before he was dealt?  That means nothing.

2) Villar had such a good year that no one wanted him at the deadline and they struggled to find anyone who would take him in the offseason.  Obviously people didn’t buy into that season, at least not to give up good talent AND pay him 8m.  The biggest issue I had with Villar is that they were acting, at least in the local press, that he was getting 10M because MLBTR said so.  That was always wrong and I don’t get why they kept quoting it.

3). Right..Bundy was nothing special and was not in the right park for his skill set.  He wasn’t nothing but he wasn’t great and you weren’t going to get a ton for him.  You could argue they should have kept him and see what happened this year but I don’t have an issue trading Him.

I mentioned his 2017 and 2019 numbers as proof that he’s a competent starting pitcher. I also mentioned his poor 2018 numbers. Another point is that Cashner was a better starting pitcher than Bundy (ERA) from 2017-2019.  Bundy 4.24/5.45/4.79 Cashner .340/5.29/4.68 (3.83 before the trade).

Yet Bundy netted 4 prospects this offseason including Bradish.

As I said, I think Elias lost the Cashner and Villar deals.

In regards to Villar I agree with your point. But, I think we should’ve kept him. He and Alberto are better than Alberto and whomever we have in that spot.  We have so many cheap player we could afford to pay Villar and have more entertaining baseball.

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34 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

In regards to Villar I agree with your point. But, I think we should’ve kept him. He and Alberto are better than Alberto and whomever we have in that spot.  We have so many cheap player we could afford to pay Villar and have more entertaining baseball.

Iglesias? For 5M less?

In their careers they have almost the same PAs. Iglesias has 11.4 rWAR to Villar's 11.0 (Iglesias 11.9 fWAR, Villar 8.5). Villar has much more offensive upside but all the metrics hate his defense.

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I for one am glad we're no longer fetishizing pitching prospects over positional players. My only case in point is the 20-plus years of following this strategy BEFORE Elias arrived. So this whole "draft pitchers" theory is absolute bunk, in my opinion. Draft the best players. Then sort things out later. And when you're ready, yeah, take a shot on your Max Scherzer and go for the ring. 

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1 hour ago, makoman said:

Iglesias? For 5M less?

In their careers they have almost the same PAs. Iglesias has 11.4 rWAR to Villar's 11.0 (Iglesias 11.9 fWAR, Villar 8.5). Villar has much more offensive upside but all the metrics hate his defense.

I dont disagree with you on your points. Iglesias is off to a hot start ...But he doesnt have the power and speed that Villar had. I think Villar was one of the more interesting players to watch.

 

Both have nearly 3000 ABs

       Iglesias        Villar

AB    2945             3032 \

Hits    750             708

2B    152               132

3B      12                 15

HR     32                  79

R       311                384

SB    52                    204

BB   267                   338

Ks   358                    802

I think the biggest difference is long ball power and speed! And Villar whiffs twice as often. I just like Villar's hard nosed hustle style of play.

Also ....Villar is not a SS even though he is still playing it with the Marlins.

As far as the contract difference. Would Villar have signed a 3 year at $6 per?

Second ... You could make the argument that we could make room for both. Iglesias at SS, Villar or Alberto at 2B or 3B.

I'm not sold on Ruiz's hot start and think we'd be better off with Villar vs Ruiz

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Elias' only priority seems to be bringing winning, playoff baseball to Baltimore.  He seems to care less about having exciting, losing baseball.  This whole idea  of "keeping the core together" of a losing ballclub and keeping fan favorites is what brought the O's 14 consecutive losing seasons.  Ok, terrible drafting and development didn't hurt. 

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2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Elias' only priority seems to be bringing winning, playoff baseball to Baltimore.  He seems to care less about having exciting, losing baseball.  This whole idea  of "keeping the core together" of a losing ballclub and keeping fan favorites is what brought the O's 14 consecutive losing seasons.  Ok, terrible drafting and development didn't hurt. 

I'd say keeping payroll low is also a priority.

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I don’t have any issue with the thought that you just keep Villar and not trade him to trade him.

But this goes back to the Angelos family and what they want.  They don’t want to spend money.  Elias did the best he could. No one wanted Villar and he had to be dealt or they were going to DFA him for nothing.

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15 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I mentioned his 2017 and 2019 numbers as proof that he’s a competent starting pitcher. I also mentioned his poor 2018 numbers. Another point is that Cashner was a better starting pitcher than Bundy (ERA) from 2017-2019.  Bundy 4.24/5.45/4.79 Cashner .340/5.29/4.68 (3.83 before the trade).

Yet Bundy netted 4 prospects this offseason including Bradish.

As I said, I think Elias lost the Cashner and Villar deals.

In regards to Villar I agree with your point. But, I think we should’ve kept him. He and Alberto are better than Alberto and whomever we have in that spot.  We have so many cheap player we could afford to pay Villar and have more entertaining baseball.

I think you just have to accept the fact that no one valued Cashner at all...for good reason.

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