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MurphDogg

LHP Bruce Zimmermann promoted and will start game 2 today

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Not an impressive debut. Zimmermann's command was bad. I hope he settles down for his next appearance.

2 hours ago, CheeryO said:

Thanks.  I'm curious about this Kevin Smith kid the O's got from the Mets.  MLB.com has him ranked at the 12th best prospect in the O's system, just behind Kremer and Lowther, with an ETA of this year.  Could be the O's think he's not quite ready to start, however.

Smith is a good prospect, but he only pitched 30 innings in AA last year and that was the highest he's gotten in the minors. Zimmermann, Akin, and Kremer all logged at least 150 innings between AA and AAA before this year. 

Plus, 40 man roster considerations are always a factor. Zimmermann and Kremer both needed to be added this winter anyway to avoid getting picked in the Rule 5 draft. Smith does not till next winter.

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21 minutes ago, Ridgway22 said:

I thought Wojo looked like a hard rocker, lead singer of something like "Ancient Leviticus Ceremonies" or such. Also, today was my first look at Zimmerman, and I was thinking "why is an actor from a 70's cop show throwing out the first pitch?"

Just got through the DVR, and here's the lead.  My goodness - that mustache.  It goes right to the childhood McGregor Flanagan reptilian brain stem.  It's hard to see almost anything else.

At one look, I'd say it's maybe an interesting call between him and Cobb for Game 5 next year, while whatever shenanigans/surgeries with Baumann, Hall, Rodriguez (and to a lesser extent Smith/Lowther) are waited out.

I heard the Driveline last offseason report, but that hits me wrong for 4-pitch mix guys.  I think I think the devil's bargain of the Driveline-type proposition is you give feel and get dominance.  I see Savant had him at 30 FB, 10 SL, 10 CH, so will be curious to see if a 4th pitch comes out in Turn 2.

Great story, and could certainly be a once through order or up/down guy for peak Rutschman teams but would hazard a guess that his IP count medium to long term is probably negatively correlated with team success.  Akin has splashed the pool to grow the group to 6 of "SP's I hope make 150+ starts/OpenerFollows for the 2021 Orioles", but I think Lopez, Smith and Lowther are more my 7/8/9 guys, never mind the Fulmers and Stewarts of the waiver wire.

I do hope Zimmermann and all those others have somewhere to continue hot (warm, at least) games in October, whether in Bowie, or at some Super Arizona Fall League to be named later.  October/November Super Arizona Fall League could be like the Futures Game every day if anything could be concocted after the World Series.  Darn tootin I want to see Grayson Rodriguez trying to get Wander Franco out then.

 

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3 hours ago, Ridgway22 said:

Zimmerman's stuff, I was impressed enough. Command, quite another conversation. If he can command that stuff, I think he's okay. Good stuff, no command, see, Cabrera, D.

I did not think Z had good command last night, but it’s premature and wrongheaded to put him in the same sentence as Daniel Cabrera, who walked 5.2 per 9 in the majors and 4.6 per 9 on the minors.    Z walked 3.2 per 9 in the minors.    I realize that a pitcher can have decent control but poor command, but Cabrera proved over many years that he had little idea where the ball was going, to an extent few Oriole pitchers ever had.     There’s no way I’m putting Z in that category given his track record.    I know that’s not exactly what you were saying, but I wouldn’t even propose it as an analogy because they are completely different types of pitchers.

(And Drungo, sorry for the Z thing but Zimmermann is a lot to type.)
 

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6 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Just got through the DVR, and here's the lead.  My goodness - that mustache.  It goes right to the childhood McGregor Flanagan reptilian brain stem.  It's hard to see almost anything else.

 

See, this is the problem with a subjective policy like "well groomed". You give these guys an inch and they take a mile. A subjective policy is essentially the same as no policy. Either let the guys go full Justin Turner or make them shave. Personally I lean toward the old (actual) policy. I blame Cashner for all of this. 

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I'm sure that was not the debut Zimmermann wanted to have in his major league debut and of course it's hard to judge guys on one start, particularly the 1st major league starts.

I've watched Zimmermann the last two season on video in the minors and then in spring training and I would say the biggest difference today was a lack of command of just about everything and a changeup that wasn't getting much drop at all.

Zimmermann doesn't have the pure stuff that an akin has, but his command has been typically better. I noticed this spring that Zimmerman was certainly throwing harder (average around 94-95) in his two inning stints, but his command had fallen off, particularly with his slider.

Last night was more of the same as he only threw his slider 3 times in the strikezone but did get his only two WHIFs on the pitch.

A concern would be that he got no WHIFs at all on his fastball or change, not one. The change last night was not getting a lot of depth and I've seen more in the past. He did not command it very well and obviously left that one up on the home run.

He did not have great command of his fastball though he did a decent job of working the edges of the zone, but missed a lot glove side which could have been nerves or over throwing a bit. He gets above average spin on his fastball but did use it well up in the zone enough and again, got no swings and misses which may mean guys pick him up well.

I'd still like to see him get more starts down the stretch to see how it looks.

Regardless of the results, congrats to a home town kid making it to the majors. 

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9 hours ago, Frobby said:

I did not think Z had good command last night, but it’s premature and wrongheaded to put him in the same sentence as Daniel Cabrera, who walked 5.2 per 9 in the majors and 4.6 per 9 on the minors.    Z walked 3.2 per 9 in the minors.    I realize that a pitcher can have decent control but poor command, but Cabrera proved over many years that he had little idea where the ball was going, to an extent few Oriole pitchers ever had.     There’s no way I’m putting Z in that category given his track record.    I know that’s not exactly what you were saying, but I wouldn’t even propose it as an analogy because they are completely different types of pitchers.

(And Drungo, sorry for the Z thing but Zimmermann is a lot to type.)
 

Command and Control are related and overlap, but are different things. If you can throw a breaking pitch for a strike and not walk someone, that is good 'control'. If you leave it belt high in the middle of the plate, jolly good for your control, but not being able to command it in / out / up / down can get you crushed in the big leagues. Cabrera, D. had NEITHER. I did not comment on Zimm's control, but his command, which looked sharp to the first batter, but hell, he's a rookie making his first start. It's not even a very small sample size. The stuff looked good enough.

Edited by Ridgway22
clarity
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I got disgusted and turned off last night’s game before Zimmermann was brought in.    I see his line looks pretty good — any impressions of how he looked?

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53 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I got disgusted and turned off last night’s game before Zimmermann was brought in.    I see his line looks pretty good — any impressions of how he looked?

I thought he looked a lot better than his first outing. He threw some good sliders. I like that he’s not afraid to throw his change up. He was better at locating it in this outing, but it doesn’t appear to be a great pitch to me judging by the hitters reaction to it. I think if he locates it well, it’ll be fine, but he can’t get away with even occasional poor location of it like someone like John Means can because I don’t think his change up is deceptive enough.

He was better with his fastball location as well, but the velocity was only 89-91. I was surprised by that since I know he improved his velocity last year and from what I remember he was touching 96 MPH in spring training. 
 

Overall, I was encouraged by what I saw last night. Hopefully, his velocity will be a little better if he gets in another game this year.

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In the minors he was a starter. Can he start in the show? I am quite confident that between the guys who should’ve come up this year but didn’t, and the guys who can be expected to arrive next year, we will have a meaningful rotation. We need a second baseman, a third baseman.

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35 minutes ago, Philip said:

In the minors he was a starter. Can he start in the show? I am quite confident that between the guys who should’ve come up this year but didn’t, and the guys who can be expected to arrive next year, we will have a meaningful rotation. We need a second baseman, a third baseman.

A switching hitting gold glove catcher would be nice too. Long term a SS would be nice too. Still a ways to go but you can see the plan taking shape. 

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46 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

A switching hitting gold glove catcher would be nice too. Long term a SS would be nice too. Still a ways to go but you can see the plan taking shape. 

Indeed. I’ve said this before, but I think this is the first season in, what, 10 years, when our dominant offseason need isn’t pitching. We need 2B, 3B, C, and LF. Elias will be Rule 5-ing some serious infielders.

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2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Indeed. I’ve said this before, but I think this is the first season in, what, 10 years, when our dominant offseason need isn’t pitching. We need 2B, 3B, C, and LF. Elias will be Rule 5-ing some serious infielders.

2015.

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2 hours ago, Philip said:

Indeed. I’ve said this before, but I think this is the first season in, what, 10 years, when our dominant offseason need isn’t pitching. We need 2B, 3B, C, and LF. Elias will be Rule 5-ing some serious infielders.

I doubt we will be chasing anyone for C or LF.     Maybe some nonroster invitee types.   

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18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I doubt we will be chasing anyone for C or LF.     Maybe some nonroster invitee types.   

I didn’t say that they would actually look for anybody for those spots, but we definitely need competent players for those places. I think the focus is going to be on second base and third-base, and it will be catcher and 1/3 of the outfield That will be the biggest impediments to a winning record next year

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