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On 4/10/2019 at 6:25 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

If Harold Baines is the new standard they're going to have to induct about 200 players in fairly short order.  There are players (such as Bobby Grich) who have nearly twice Baines' value and fell off the ballot in a year or two and have never been seriously considered in the 20 years since.

There is no standard.  The BBWAA kind of has a loose standard, but the various Committees do whatever the heck they want, no matter how inconsistent with past results.

I don't get the hate for HB. He was great as an Oriole. Professional hitter. No-nonsense guy, kept to himself, and just hit the ball consistently.

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On 4/10/2019 at 11:23 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I think I have about $30 in my house, not counting the jar of foreign money I didn't get around to spending on trips, and the Eagle Scout plaque that has a 50-cent piece for each merit badge. 

I have a former co-worker who seemed astonished that everyone didn't have $75 grand in their mattress.  What are you going to do when society crumbles and credit cards and ATMs don't work anymore, and the internet has evaporated? 

Where does your former coworker live and when is he at work?

 

🙂

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8 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

I don't get the hate for HB. He was great as an Oriole. Professional hitter. No-nonsense guy, kept to himself, and just hit the ball consistently.

I don't think Drungo is hating on Baines, he just thinks and rightly so that Baines should not be in the HOF. Baines is one of my favorite players ever and he had the sweetest swing, but he is hall of very good and should not be in Cooperstown. 

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Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I don't think Drungo is hating on Baines, he just thinks and rightly so that Baines should not be in the HOF. Baines is one of my favorite players ever and he had the sweetest swing, but he is hall of very good and should not be in Cooperstown. 

If Barnes is in, Buddy Bell should be in... and Julio Franco. What an amazing player he was.

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9 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

I don't get the hate for HB. He was great as an Oriole. Professional hitter. No-nonsense guy, kept to himself, and just hit the ball consistently.

What hate?  Harold Baines is an awesome guy, and I loved watching him on the O's.  Eastern Shore native.  What's not to like?

But that doesn't change the fact that his career was about 75% as valuable as John Olerud's.  Baines will be looked at in 20 years as a good dude who benefited from yet another bizarre and confused vote of an ill-conceived and obviously biased Veteran's Committee. Unfortunately that's basically how he's looked at today.

Here's an exercise: lay out a convincing case that Baines deserves induction and Keith Hernandez doesn't.  Baines basically didn't play the field the last 15 years of his career.  Hernandez won 11 gold gloves, and that's validated by modern metrics as he's a +117 run fielder.  Baines, mostly not having any fielding responsibility, led the league in slugging once.  That was his only league-leading mark in anything.  Hernandez led the league in runs twice, doubles, walks, batting average, and OBP.  Hernandez had a 128 OPS+, Baines 121. Hernandez played on two World Series champs, Baines none.  Hernandez won an MVP award, Baines never finished higher than 9th.  Hernandez out-WARs Baines 60-38.

Clearly, unambiguously, Hernandez was a vastly superior player.  But he peaked out at 10% of the BBWAA vote and hasn't been able to convince a committee of his value.  Baines peaked out at 6%, but got a committee with a number of his former managers, GMs, and peers to vote him in.

And that's just one example.  There are literally over 200 position players with more than 38 rWAR who are not in the Hall of Fame.

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3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

What hate?  Harold Baines is an awesome guy, and I loved watching him on the O's.  Eastern Shore native.  What's not to like?

But that doesn't change the fact that his career was about 75% as valuable as John Olerud's.  Baines will be looked at in 20 years as a good dude who benefited from yet another bizarre and confused vote of an ill-conceived and obviously biased Veteran's Committee. Unfortunately that's basically how he's looked at today.

Here's an exercise: lay out a convincing case that Baines deserves induction and Keith Hernandez doesn't.  Baines basically didn't play the field the last 15 years of his career.  Hernandez won 11 gold gloves, and that's validated by modern metrics as he's a +117 run fielder.  Baines, mostly not having any fielding responsibility, led the league in slugging once.  That was his only league-leading mark in anything.  Hernandez led the league in runs twice, doubles, walks, batting average, and OBP.  Hernandez had a 128 OPS+, Baines 121. Hernandez played on two World Series champs, Baines none.  Hernandez won an MVP award, Baines never finished higher than 9th.  Hernandez out-WARs Baines 60-38.

Clearly, unambiguously, Hernandez was a vastly superior player.  But he peaked out at 10% of the BBWAA vote and hasn't been able to convince a committee of his value.  Baines peaked out at 6%, but got a committee with a number of his former managers, GMs, and peers to vote him in.

And that's just one example.  There are literally over 200 position players with more than 38 rWAR who are not in the Hall of Fame.

The state rests your Honor!

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