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2 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

"Don't hate the player, hate the game." Here I go with hate again, sorry. What I mean is there is a reason there is a committee and it's not just the baseball writers' call.

Because the writers spent a generation or two being overly strict?

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On 4/14/2019 at 2:44 PM, TonySoprano said:

 Manny's rep is self-inflicted, no need to read more into than that.  A headline which reads "Adam Jones on Manny Machado’s rep as a dirty player: Race is ‘one hundred percent’ a factor" is also a "way to get clicks." 

 

 

The difference between grinders and Manny is that grinders do it every play. Manny gets aggressive when he's frustrated.

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2 hours ago, survivedc said:

The difference between grinders and Manny is that grinders do it every play. Manny gets aggressive when he's frustrated.

I don't think you can build up the type of stats he has by just putting out when he's annoyed. Unless lots of hits and historically great defense are just "natural" to him. Anyone who survives being a regular an entire baseball season, sometimes including post-season series, and performs as well as he does is grinding.

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14 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

"Don't hate the player, hate the game." Here I go with hate again, sorry. What I mean is there is a reason there is a committee and it's not just the baseball writers' call.

You should read The Politics of Glory by Bill James.  It's 15-20 years old now, but goes through a good timeline and story of how and why the various Hall of Fame voting systems came about. 

The quick summary was that they had a poor voting system from day one in 1936.  It was a system much like the 2016 Republican primary - 500 candidates, and hundreds of voters and almost no guidance on how to logically sort them out.  Because the writers didn't have much information to go on prior to the first Baseball Encyclopedia in 1969, they often went on stories and legends and half-truths.  And the amazing backlog of candidates and the voting system meant obvious candidates couldn't get to 75%.  There were years in the 1950s where people we now think of as inner-circle HOFers were eligible, but nobody was elected at all.  It was so discombobulated that Lefty Grove got votes after he'd already been elected.  The various Committees were formed in an attempt to get someone elected so they could have Hall of Fame weekend in Cooperstown to draw paying customers in.

It's really been 60 years now that players who barely got any attention from the writers got in by the back door, often because they had personal connections to members of small Committees.  Duke Snider took about a decade to get in, but George Kell just had to convince like 7 of 12 committee members and in he went.  There are years from the 1920s where roughly 25% of all PAs are from HOFers, because Frankie Frisch played then, he headed up the Vet's Commitee in the 60s and early 70s, and he managed to get a very large percentage of Giant and Cardinal players from his era inducted.  Those are some of the worst, least-deserving selections of all time. 

In short, the reason the Committees exist is they had a terrible voting system which they tried to fix with an equally-poorly thought out series of Committees.  The end result is that the inner circle guys eventually get in (minus PED guys and gamblers), but below them it's a crapshoot.

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On 4/14/2019 at 3:30 PM, CallMeBrooksie said:

I don't think the headline was misleading or dishonest. I think it's fair to consider and discuss what role race plays in the rhetoric used to describe minorities in the USA, just as Adam did. He didn't say that Manny is a squeaky clean player, but when asked, he opined that race definitely plays a factor in the rhetoric that gets tossed around. It's not a far-fetched statement to make.

LOL. Throwing a bat at a third baseman, dirty slides into second base, and stepping on a first baseman's foot has nothing to do with race....but welcome to modern day American thought!

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1 minute ago, pastorfan said:

LOL. Throwing a bat at a third baseman, dirty slides into second base, and stepping on a first baseman's foot has nothing to do with race....but welcome to modern day American thought!

He didn't throw a bat at a third baseman.

Why would he want to throw a bat at the third baseman?

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12 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

LOL. Throwing a bat at a third baseman, dirty slides into second base, and stepping on a first baseman's foot has nothing to do with race....but welcome to modern day American thought!

No one quite discounted the things he has done. Not even Adam. Just offered his opinion on his former teammate and said that race could definitely play a factor in how he's viewed. 

We have a pretty checkered racial history in this country (putting it lightly). Just because you personally may not see its effects on modern America doesn't mean others of us don't. And may have an interest in talking about it. 

Edited by Bubble Buddy
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43 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

LOL. Throwing a bat at a third baseman, dirty slides into second base, and stepping on a first baseman's foot has nothing to do with race....but welcome to modern day American thought!

Manny says he didn’t clip Pearce’s foot on purpose.    I tend to believe him on that one given his close relationship with Pearce.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2018/10/manny-machado-dodgers-steve-pearce-world-series-mlb-spiking-video-dirty/amp

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On 4/12/2019 at 9:00 AM, Frobby said:

For some reason, I find myself rooting against Gausman doing well.    It’s like I don’t want to believe that his so-so performance here was due to poor development and coaching.    It’s stupid, since all those coaches are gone, we have a completely new regime here, and generally I like the Braves.   But I also don’t want to feel like we got badly ripped off in that trade, and the better Gausman does, the worse I’ll feel about that. So I appreciate it when he has a mediocre game like last night’s.  

Meanwhile, at least Darren O’Day is making us look good for dumping his contract.    He’s still shut down with no projected return date.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/braves-darren-oday-shut-down/amp/.   But the truth is, I’ve always really liked O’Day and I hope he returns and does well for the Braves.

I said at the time the Gausman trade was terrible and it still is.   Been saying for along time the Gausman was better than people thought.  Poor defense and McDowell was a terrible pitching coach.  I loved Buck but one thing he could not do was pick a good pitching coach. Wallace was good but I think Dan was the connection that got him to Baltimore.   

I don't root against any of the O's that have left.  It was a good run while it lasted but the energy was not there any more.

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1 hour ago, pastorfan said:

LOL. Throwing a bat at a third baseman, dirty slides into second base, and stepping on a first baseman's foot has nothing to do with race....but welcome to modern day American thought!

I think Adam has as much credibility as anyone in the MLB when it comes to the topic. I think you'd be foolish to dismiss his thoughts outright.

 

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18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I said at the time the Gausman trade was terrible and it still is.   Been saying for along time the Gausman was better than people thought.  Poor defense and McDowell was a terrible pitching coach.  I loved Buck but one thing he could not do was pick a good pitching coach. Wallace was good but I think Dan was the connection that got him to Baltimore.   

I don't root against any of the O's that have left.  It was a good run while it lasted but the energy was not there any more.

I don't remember a single good thing about this guy. At least it sounds like the pitchers actually like Brocail, whether he has any success or not. At least it seems like he cares. 

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41 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't remember a single good thing about this guy. At least it sounds like the pitchers actually like Brocail, whether he has any success or not. At least it seems like he cares. 

So if you were to choose a "silver thread", as it were, in McDowell's tenure, it might only be the strength of his Seinfeld Rerun appearances?

 

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1 minute ago, bobmc said:

So if you were to choose a "silver thread", as it were, in McDowell's tenure it might only be the strength of his Seinfeld Rerun appearances?

 

Wasn't McDowell one of the class clowns on the '86 Mets?  I guess it's something to be a notable character on a team of eccentrics and drug addicts and partiers and the like.

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On 4/14/2019 at 2:44 PM, TonySoprano said:

 Manny's rep is self-inflicted, no need to read more into than that.  A headline which reads "Adam Jones on Manny Machado’s rep as a dirty player: Race is ‘one hundred percent’ a factor" is also a "way to get clicks." 

 

 

Wasn't this Manny's hairstyle last year?  Now I see the inspriation for it.

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4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Wasn't McDowell one of the class clowns on the '86 Mets?  I guess it's something to be a notable character on a team of eccentrics and drug addicts and partiers and the like.

And by one of the class clowns, you mean the entire 1986 Mets roster? 😜

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