Brocail, Flores let go

[ThomasTomasz]

20 hours ago, Frobby said:

So last year, Brocail oversaw one of the worst pitching staffs in the history of baseball, which posted a 5.59 ERA and destroyed the major league record for home runs allowed, and he was retained.    This year, the team ERA is over a run lower, at 4.51, and they let Brocail go.    Go figure.    

Could be a variety of factors playing into that.  ERA is a good stat, probably the best of all of what we call traditional stats, but it is still limited.  Due to some defensive improvements this year, it might be best to look at FIP to see how our pitchers performed.  They may also have their own expectations for how each pitcher should see improvement, and maybe enough pitchers didn't see improvement to justify keeping Brocail.  

The other point being brought up about the minor leagues being condensed and more coaches available is an interesting one.  Seeing Dylan Bundy succeed with Mickey Callaway also highlights the need for a great instructor who can translate things from analytics and communicate one-on-one with the player.  

This is a crucial hire to get right.  

[ThomasTomasz]

8 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I’m sure they have their reasons for the dismissal but I don’t follow some of what you are saying here. 

You are telling me the analytics department was not in communication with the staff last year concerning Bundy? Bundy also showed signs the second half of last year that he was making adjustments. We don’t know how he would have performed here this year. Bundy was better across the board but his HR rate dropped in half. Look at the competition he faced. The AL West was not a division that hit well this year. Out of 11 starts he made 5 vs Texas and Seattle combined. What if he stayed and made 5 starts here combined vs Toronto and NYY? I like Bundy but he was dealt because we aren’t ready to win and he brought 4 prospects back. 
 

Clearly the pitching was better this year. My guess is this was not based on numbers at all and other factors are at play.  

I don't think we can discount Bundy moving out of OPACY and the AL East for this as you said. The one item that is most missing during anyone's assessment of Bundy is that Mickey Callaway is the Angels pitching coach.  A great pitching coach is still needed to relate to the player and make sure they are getting everything out of the data presented to them, and Callaway is one of the best.  

[Can_of_corn]

27 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I don't think we can discount Bundy moving out of OPACY and the AL East for this as you said. The one item that is most missing during anyone's assessment of Bundy is that Mickey Callaway is the Angels pitching coach.  A great pitching coach is still needed to relate to the player and make sure they are getting everything out of the data presented to them, and Callaway is one of the best.  

Aside from his HR rate decline and his pitch usage continuing a trend we saw last year nothing much changed tho.  I'm not sure I see the handiwork of a pitching coach.

[ThomasTomasz]

It’s behind the Athletic paywall, but Connolly is reporting Brocail and Flores were let go of in cost cutting measures. Elias cited a mandate from ownership with one of them at least. 

[Sports Guy]

https://theathletic.com/2109598/2020/10/02/connolly-why-the-orioles-moved-on-from-coaches-doug-brocail-and-jose-flores/?source=user_shared_article
 

This is beyond pathetic.

[MurphDogg]

Sounds like they didn't want to lose Chris Holt to another team and they wanted to go from 8 to 7 uniformed coaches (which is what they had had for years before Showalter).

Hopefully Holt is as effective a pitching coach as he seemed to be as director of pitching for the organization. 

[Sports Guy]

What’s the big deal about being a ML pitching coach?  I would rather oversee an entire organization and if I were the Os, I would pay more for that role than pitching coach.

[Can_of_corn]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

https://theathletic.com/2109598/2020/10/02/connolly-why-the-orioles-moved-on-from-coaches-doug-brocail-and-jose-flores/?source=user_shared_article
 

This is beyond pathetic.

The savings aren't going to amount to much.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The savings aren't going to amount to much.

 

Exactly..so why even worry about it?

[canonfaz]

No way it was 100% financially motivated. It probably helps that whoever they hire back will likely make less (and they may only fill 1 spot), but there are so many other ways in a corporation as big as the Orioles to cut costs other than cutting ties with coaches that you want to keep.

[MurphDogg]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What’s the big deal about being a ML pitching coach?  I would rather oversee an entire organization and if I were the Os, I would pay more for that role than pitching coach.

Prestige, working with the top level pitchers in the organization using MLB quality equipment and tools, not driving by yourself all around the Eastern seaboard to second rate ballparks and staying in third rate hotel rooms to work with 5 different staffs.

I wuld much rather be on home for half of a six month season and flying and staying in nice hotels the other half instead of being on the road and driving for an entire six month season.

[Moose Milligan]

42 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Prestige, working with the top level pitchers in the organization using MLB quality equipment and tools, not driving by yourself all around the Eastern seaboard to second rate ballparks and staying in third rate hotel rooms to work with 5 different staffs.

I wuld much rather be on home for half of a six month season and flying and staying in nice hotels the other half instead of being on the road and driving for an entire six month season.

Bingo.  It's a "top of the profession" type gig.  A good pitching coach will always have a job and not have to grind it out too hard.  Overseeing an organization would be pretty taxing.

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, canonfaz said:

No way it was 100% financially motivated. It probably helps that whoever they hire back will likely make less (and they may only fill 1 spot), but there are so many other ways in a corporation as big as the Orioles to cut costs other than cutting ties with coaches that you want to keep.

I can see wanting to keep Holt if you think that highly of him. That said when you cut a coach that is all money. 

Cutting coaches, scouts, etc while the owners are rich 100 times over just doesn’t sit right with me. 
 

That said big picture, all sports especially baseball are at a unique place. Revenues will definitely be down for awhile. With MLB having a labor deal expiring that complicates it even more. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Exactly..so why even worry about it?

I'm the wrong one to ask.  I'm the one that been worrying over how frugal the sons have been.  This is fuel for my fire.  Now I wonder if Elias didn't spend all the draft and international slot money this year because he was told not to.

Is this connected with the Gary Thorne issue earlier in the year?

How much are they cutting?

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm the wrong one to ask.  I'm the one that been worrying over how frugal the sons have been.  This is fuel for my fire.  Now I wonder if Elias didn't spend all the draft and international slot money this year because he was told not to.

Is this connected with the Gary Thorne issue earlier in the year?

How much are they cutting?

Enough to piss you off, apparently.