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Who are the #19 and #20 Prospects?

Who are the #19 and #20 Prospects?  

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  1. 1. Who are the #19 and #20 Prospects?

    • Adam Hall and Kyle Bradish
    • Darrell Hernaiz and Adam Hall
    • Darrell Hernaiz and Brenan Hanifee
      0
    • Brenan Hanifee and Kevin Smith
    • Kevin Smith and Kyle Bradish


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1 hour ago, Philip said:

He deserved a chance because we had 40 wins, so why not?

Because you other players you thought would be able to come out who have actually done things that deserves a try out.

He had accomplished nothing.

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I still don’t get how Elias whiffed on Yaz when he really never saw him play and could look at his age and MiL stats and see nothing but a mediocre, career minor leaguer.

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Tony, I think your points about the players Elias has brought in off waivers not producing much Is stronger than the point about Yaz. It’s not like they had a lot of time to evaluate Yaz.    Basically, a few weeks in the spring when he showed very little, to go with his mediocre track record.    

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Tony, I think your points about the players Elias has brought in off waivers not producing much Is stronger than the point about Yaz. It’s not like they had a lot of time to evaluate Yaz.    Basically, a few weeks in the spring when he showed very little, to go with his mediocre track record.    

I mean I guess but guys are on waivers for a reason..they aren’t good.  You take a shot and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle but for the most part, all you hope for is someone to take up at bats while you wait for younger players to develop.

I would never really expect a guy to be claimed off of waivers and turn out to be good.  I wouldn’t expect a rule 5 guy to be anything more than a mediocre role player.

Sometimes you get lucky and they become more than that but usually, they are as likely to be DFa’ed as they are to make a minimal contribution.

I think complaining about the lack of productivity from these types of guys is a relative waste of time.

 Where I think you do complain is that Elias hasn’t gotten better players.  That’s my complaint.  You have some resources to get better players, go get them.  

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10 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Interesting analysis. Not sure I agree on all points but from my perspective I look at the Elias-Sig regime as a definite 5 year project and as I have stated before I don't start grading until after 2021 and possibly 2022 as one full season and 60 games is no legitimate yardstick. Not having minor league baseball is a definite setback but the fact our Farm System is graded #8 is big plus and the FO deserves some credit here. In summary, rebuilding a 47 win team is going to be a major task and it's going to take several years to turn the corner. I think we all need patience and lots of it realistically.

Well let’s remember that a lot of parts of that system that are good were here before Elias got here.

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19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because you other players you thought would be able to come out who have actually done things that deserves a try out.

He had accomplished nothing.

So? The guys we brought up for a chance, every guy brought up for a chance, as opposed to bringing up “because he is ready,” is by definition being given an opportunity that he doesn’t necessarily deserve. We risk nothing by bringing him up.

I’m a musician, and I can’t judge a piece without paying it once. Maybe not all the way through, but gotta sit down and play it. Now, it might be by a terrible or unknown composer, and some would say,”it’s by Danzi, it sucks.” Well, so? Maybe it does suck. Danzi was a mediocre composer. But maybe it doesn’t suck. Maybe it’s worthwhile, as recital filler, or as a rare gem from a mediocrity. But if I play it, I’ll know.

As another surprisingly similar example, the widow of a local cellist gave me some of her late husband’s music, including an untouched piece he bought 50+ years ago. So rare there’s only one lonely YouTube audio, and the music is long out of print and the publisher is itself long out of business. I played it and said, “this is an incredible piece.” And it is. So this piece is Yaz. The previous owner never bothered to play it, and I did, and I get the benefit. If he’d played lit, maybe he’d have hated it, maybe not. But he never gave it a chance.

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Yeah, I don't consider returning a Rule 5 guy to be a fail.  In fact, it is the most likely result, league-wide.  I really consider taking Rule 5 shots at guys to be a matter of nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Also, IMO, picking up stop gap players and have them turn out to be exactly that isn't really a fail, either.  Sure, I'd like to see us strike gold on one of these guys, but I can't say that I expect it to happen.  I'm more interested in seeing how guys we acquire like Vavra and Smith turn out.

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7 minutes ago, Philip said:

So? The guys we brought up for a chance, every guy brought up for a chance, as opposed to bringing up “because he is ready,” is by definition being given an opportunity that he doesn’t necessarily deserve. We risk nothing by bringing him up.

I’m a musician, and I can’t judge a piece without paying it once. Maybe not all the way through, but gotta sit down and play it. Now, it might be by a terrible or unknown composer, and some would say,”it’s by Danzi, it sucks.” Well, so? Maybe it does suck. Danzi was a mediocre composer. But maybe it doesn’t suck. Maybe it’s worthwhile, as recital filler, or as a rare gem from a mediocrity. But if I play it, I’ll know.

As another surprisingly similar example, the widow of a local cellist gave me some of her late husband’s music, including an untouched piece he bought 50+ years ago. So rare there’s only one lonely YouTube audio, and the music is long out of print and the publisher is itself long out of business. I played it and said, “this is an incredible piece.” And it is. So this piece is Yaz. The previous owner never bothered to play it, and I did, and I get the benefit. If he’d played lit, maybe he’d have hated it, maybe not. But he never gave it a chance.

Yaz played the instrument for years and wasn’t good.  He deserved nothing and didn’t earn anything.

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5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Still waiting on a reason why Yaz SHOULD have had a chance.

To me, using the word should implies that he earned it.  It implies that he proved to the organization that he was a MLer and they overlooked him and didn’t give him that chance.

Is that what people believe?

I don’t think he should have had much of a chance. I wish we were smart enough to see it coming. That’s whT I’m disappointed in and what I don’t want to happen in the future.

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1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

I don’t think he should have had much of a chance. I wish we were smart enough to see it coming. That’s whT I’m disappointed in and what I don’t want to happen in the future.

You can’t blame Elias for not seeing it coming though. 

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10 minutes ago, Philip said:

So? The guys we brought up for a chance, every guy brought up for a chance, as opposed to bringing up “because he is ready,” is by definition being given an opportunity that he doesn’t necessarily deserve. We risk nothing by bringing him up.

I’m a musician, and I can’t judge a piece without paying it once. Maybe not all the way through, but gotta sit down and play it. Now, it might be by a terrible or unknown composer, and some would say,”it’s by Danzi, it sucks.” Well, so? Maybe it does suck. Danzi was a mediocre composer. But maybe it doesn’t suck. Maybe it’s worthwhile, as recital filler, or as a rare gem from a mediocrity. But if I play it, I’ll know.

As another surprisingly similar example, the widow of a local cellist gave me some of her late husband’s music, including an untouched piece he bought 50+ years ago. So rare there’s only one lonely YouTube audio, and the music is long out of print and the publisher is itself long out of business. I played it and said, “this is an incredible piece.” And it is. So this piece is Yaz. The previous owner never bothered to play it, and I did, and I get the benefit. If he’d played lit, maybe he’d have hated it, maybe not. But he never gave it a chance.

So, to be clear, you think every player in the system should be brought up to the major league team?  As others have said, it is easy now, in hindsight, to say that Elias should have seen that Yaz was going to be a star in the three weeks of spring training he had to look at him, after an uninspiring minor league career under the previous regime, but that just seems to be an unreasonable assessment of Elias, IMO.

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28 minutes ago, Number5 said:

So, to be clear, you think every player in the system should be brought up to the major league team?  As others have said, it is easy now, in hindsight, to say that Elias should have seen that Yaz was going to be a star in the three weeks of spring training he had to look at him, after an uninspiring minor league career under the previous regime, but that just seems to be an unreasonable assessment of Elias, IMO.

No, I think that’s hyperbole. There are a lot of guys in the organization that are just filler, they know it, we know it, and for whatever reason they are willing to hang around for a while. So the answer to your question is, “no I don’t think everybody in the minors should be brought up,” But yaz wasn’t just filler. And when he went to the Giants he did not become a mere stopgap, he became a star that anybody in the National League would like to have. I agree with all the people who say that that indicates that something is wrong with the process. However I’ve made my point multiple times, and it’s all water under the bridge anyway. So it doesn’t matter. Let’s just hope Whatever mistake happened does not reoccur.

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On 10/23/2020 at 10:20 AM, LookinUp said:

That's not how a smart, analytic organization thinks. It's reasonable, but lazy. The whole goal is to try to tap potential. They didn't. I'm not killing them for it. I agree that it happens to every org. Still, as my other post said, I'd still want to know what they missed and why they missed it, or at least I'd like them to understand that.

I mostly agree with your posts. This one I don't. It's not lazy. It's insane what he has done. And really. It's not even that much. 

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3 minutes ago, Philip said:

No, I think that’s hyperbole. There are a lot of guys in the organization that are just filler, they know it, we know it, and for whatever reason they are willing to hang around for a while. So the answer to your question is, “no I don’t think everybody in the minors should be brought up,” But yaz wasn’t just filler. And when he went to the Giants he did not become a mere stopgap, he became a star that anybody in the National League would like to have. I agree with all the people who say that that indicates that something is wrong with the process. However I’ve made my point multiple times, and it’s all water under the bridge anyway. So it doesn’t matter. Let’s just hope Whatever mistake happened does not reoccur.

Again, it wasn't a mistake. He learned something that made him better. I don't even think they taught him it. I think he learned it somewhere. The bloodlines were there, never the skills. He's Buster Douglas. Just a fluke and took advantage of the opportunity. 

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55 minutes ago, weams said:

Again, it wasn't a mistake. He learned something that made him better. I don't even think they taught him it. I think he learned it somewhere. The bloodlines were there, never the skills. He's Buster Douglas. Just a fluke and took advantage of the opportunity. 

Well, if I may continue my musician comparison, I’ve had many students come to me with problems that the previous teacher had not solved. And I have solve those problems. So the question is why did not the previous teacher solve those problems? Again, it’s all water under the bridge, and there’s not really any reason to rehash It, but I stand by what I said, and I’m not the only person who thinks that way.

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