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Nunez DFA

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Just now, wildcard said:

Here the guys that will play DH for the O's this year: (6) Mancini, Mountcastle,  Hays, Santander, Diaz and maybe Iglesias. All need at bats.  All are more valuable than Nunez.   Plus the O's have Stewart who is cheaper and if the other 6 are healthy may be in AAA.   

There is no place for Nunez to get enough at bats to be production with those players on the roster.

This doesn’t make sense.

DH is a full time position.  None of those guys will be a full time DH until Diaz is here and even then, injuries could still make none of a full time DH.  Just because a spot start here and there could occur isn’t even something to mention.

If you are arguing that these guys are all so much more valuable than Nunez, you are doing it because they are better in the field and on the bases...if you make one of them a full time DH, you take away a lot of that “extra value”.  At that point, you are then saying, who is the more valuable hitter.

Well, only Mountcastle and likely Mancini are better and more valuable hitters than Nunez.  Santander and Hays aren’t.  Iglesias maybe is but his career says he’s not.  We have no idea about Diaz yet.  
 

Diaz isn’t likely to be on the team for a while anyway.

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8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is the NL keeping the DH long term?  Will there be expanded rosters next year and beyond?  Nunez offers no versatility. 
 

The NL DH would help Nunez, but expanded rosters hurt him. Teams can piece together his offensive production with platoons. 

And likely spend more money doing it.

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7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s a supply and demand thing.  Whether someone offers X amount of dollars is irrelevant.  The Os And their structure, could use his bat and his production.   Most teams don’t have that combo of at bats and money they can spend on a player with his skill set.  
 

The Os do...and the idea that other teams chose not to do it is irrelevant to his value to this organization.  The idea that they may be looking into Puig (conjecture) and brought on a LH DH type at REINFORCES the idea that this is salary driven, not producing driven imo.  
 

My only argument with this decision is that this isn’t solely or even largely driven by roster management despite what Elias says.  He is lying for management.

I and others have already agreed that is largely money driven but it's a combination of the money and what Nunez brings to the table.   If Nunez was an average or slightly below average 3B, they would gladly pay him the 2M or whatever.  They believe he's easily replaceable,  whether that be Stewart being the DH or a rotation of players into that spot while players like Valaika and Mullins give starters days off in the field.  Again, I agree the O's are being cheap. No argument there.  I just don't have a problem with their cheapness with this move.

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5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This doesn’t make sense.

DH is a full time position.  None of those guys will be a full time DH until Diaz is here and even then, injuries could still make none of a full time DH.  Just because a spot start here and there could occur isn’t even something to mention.

If you are arguing that these guys are all so much more valuable than Nunez, you are doing it because they are better in the field and on the bases...if you make one of them a full time DH, you take away a lot of that “extra value”.  At that point, you are then saying, who is the more valuable hitter.

Well, only Mountcastle and likely Mancini are better and more valuable hitters than Nunez.  Santander and Hays aren’t.  Iglesias maybe is but his career says he’s not.  We have no idea about Diaz yet.  
 

Diaz isn’t likely to be on the team for a while anyway.

2021 Orioles may not have one player that is a full time DH.  Most teams don't.

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13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

2021 Orioles may no have one player that is a full time DH.  Most teams don't.

Very few teams in the National League have a full time DH.

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

My quibble here is that the term “market rate” means what teams are willing to pay.    I’d say teams don’t pay these players their theoretical value.    But we mean the same thing.        
 

Yeah, theoretical value is what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up :)

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, only Mountcastle and likely Mancini are better and more valuable hitters than Nunez.  Santander and Hays aren’t.  

I think Santander and Hays eventually will both be better hitters than Nunez.    And maybe that’s the point — we want these guys getting as many at bats as possible.    The more experience they get now, the sooner they reach their peak performance.   

Now, do I think it’s a sure thing that they will eventually be better hitters than Nunez?    No.   Just more probable than not, IMO.
 

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3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Santander and Hays eventually will both be better hitters than Nunez.    And maybe that’s the point — we want these guys getting as many at bats as possible.    The more experience they get now, the sooner they reach their peak performance.   

Now, do I think it’s a sure thing that they will eventually be better hitters than Nunez?    No.   Just more probable than not, IMO.
 

Yea, I agree.  I hope for the best for Nunez. I hope he catches on somewhere else. But I'm not mad at this move.

Excited to watch Mancini, Mountcastle, Santander, and Hays in 2021.

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Regarding Nunez’ worth, it’s undeniable that he’s not worth his expected arbitration cost, or he would have been acquired by someone. Sorry. One can claim otherwise forever, but every team, including ours, refuted that claim.

But what about VALUE? If we could have kept Nunez for league minimum, would he have been worth keeping on the 40-man?

No.  As @Frobby pointed out, a one-tool 1.5 WAR guy isn’t necessarily as desirable as a 1.5 WAR multiple-tool guy. So money wasn’t the issue. It was a peripheral benefit of letting him go, but it was not the main motivation.

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This doesn’t make sense.

DH is a full time position.  None of those guys will be a full time DH until Diaz is here and even then, injuries could still make none of a full time DH.  Just because a spot start here and there could occur isn’t even something to mention.

If you are arguing that these guys are all so much more valuable than Nunez, you are doing it because they are better in the field and on the bases...if you make one of them a full time DH, you take away a lot of that “extra value”.  At that point, you are then saying, who is the more valuable hitter.

Well, only Mountcastle and likely Mancini are better and more valuable hitters than Nunez.  Santander and Hays aren’t.  Iglesias maybe is but his career says he’s not.  We have no idea about Diaz yet.  
 

Diaz isn’t likely to be on the team for a while anyway.

DH is NOT a full-time position unless you’ve got Edgar Martinez on the roster. Rotating DH is for roster flexibility, resting a regular, playing a guy on a hot streak, easing back in after an illness, and so on. Devoting a roster spot to one guy who does nothing but hit is a foolish use of a spot, unless he’s a glorious, “proof there is a God” hitter. And Nunez isn’t. I looked up his offensive stats at Baseball savant. Of ten offensive categories, his percentile rank was above average in only two, and one of those just barely(xSLG was %55) his sprint speed was  fairly close at 43%, but in the other 7, he was 35% Or lower. That’s not Edgar territory.

By comparison, Nelson Cruz was horrible in sprint speed( no bunt singles for HIM) and K rate, but terrific in every other category... and he’s 40. He IS a, “Proof there is a God” hitter.

Man, Cruz is amazing. That was really one we let get away.

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7 minutes ago, Philip said:

As @Frobby pointed out, a one-tool 1.5 WAR guy isn’t necessarily as desirable as a 1.5 WAR multiple-tool guy. So money wasn’t the issue.

Just to be sure my point isn’t misconstrued, this depends on the needs of a particular team as well as what’s available in the market at a given time.  WAR already accounts for the relative value of offense vs. defense, and how much offense is typically available at a particular position.   So overall a 1.5 WAR DH is just as valuable as a 1.5 WAR multiple position player.   But not for every team and not at all times.

Looking around the AL, four teams had a .651 OPS or worse at DH.   You’d think a team like that could use a guy like Nunez.

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I think Santander and Hays eventually will both be better hitters than Nunez.    And maybe that’s the point — we want these guys getting as many at bats as possible.    The more experience they get now, the sooner they reach their peak performance.   

Now, do I think it’s a sure thing that they will eventually be better hitters than Nunez?    No.   Just more probable than not, IMO.
 

They get those at bats whether Nunez is here or not.

The presence of Nunez changes absolutely nothing about your post.

His presence only becomes an issue IF Diaz is up and IF everyone is producing and healthy.

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3 hours ago, wildcard said:

2021 Orioles may no have one player that is a full time DH.  Most teams don't.

Seven of 15 AL teams had one player get more than 50% of the team at bats at DH.  Three had pretty much one guy exclusively,   Three others had someone get at least 67% of the at bats.   

Notably, the Orioles were not one of these teams.   Nunez had only 35% of the team’s DH at bats, and only about 40% of his at bats were as a DH.   He played DH more often (percentage-wise) in 2019 than in 2020.
 

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Just to be sure my point isn’t misconstrued, this depends on the needs of a particular team as well as what’s available in the market at a given time.  WAR already accounts for the relative value of offense vs. defense, and how much offense is typically available at a particular position.   So overall a 1.5 WAR DH is just as valuable as a 1.5 WAR multiple position player.   But not for every team and not at all times.

Looking around the AL, four teams had a .651 OPS or worse at DH.   You’d think a team like that could use a guy like Nunez.

Sure. I’m sorry if my comment was misunderstood. Actually, maybe it wasn’t. The Same value can mean different things base on team need. Most teams would prefer their 1.5 WAR in a more versatile package, unless they have a glaring need for the single tool offered by the limited guy. You mentioned 4 AL teams, which is four out of 30.

As I said earlier, he will probably be playing somewhere next season, but it won’t be for very much.

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1 minute ago, Philip said:

Sure. I’m sorry if my comment was misunderstood. Actually, maybe it wasn’t. The Same value can mean different things base on team need. Most teams would prefer their 1.5 WAR in a more versatile package, unless they have a glaring need for the single tool offered by the limited guy. You mentioned 4 AL teams, which is four out of 30.

As I said earlier, he will probably be playing somewhere next season, but it won’t be for very much.

Your DH doesn’t have to be versatile.  

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