Jose Iglesias traded to Angels.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not insulting you at all.  You just aren’t answering any of the questions and it’s a waste of my time continue to ask you the same questions over and over again.  RZ has asked you and I have asked you and you still haven’t answered it.  You just aren’t comprehending what we are asking, so it’s not worth going any further.

But sure, if you want to take that as Sports Guy is always right, be my guest...it goes along with the rest of your reading comprehension in this thread.(and pretty much all threads)

So I'm too stupid to "Comprehend" what you are asking.....But your not throwing insults! Same old Shtick!!!!

I said that when Manicini was promoted it wasn't after a season where he didn't have a competitive AB. There is nothing wrong with that answer other than that is the answer you were looking for! I said Diaz season where he hit .262/807 was at AA and not AAA. So therefore the 2 circumstances are the same. Anyone with a little bit of intelligence can understand these differences (SEE I CAN DO IT ALSO!).

Also ..... Diaz was a highly sought after IFA that got a 2 million dollar gift from the Dodgers that we received as a part of the Machado deal. I'd assume you'd agree that expectations should be higher for a high priced IFR or a #1 overall selection like Adley compared to your expectations for an 8th round pick that received a nominal bonus. People were "Meh" about getting Stallings (a 5th rounder) for Iglesias

[Sports Guy]

I think people also have to remember where guys are in their careers.

Diaz has almost 1500 MiL at bats.  He has over 700 at bats in AA alone and he has an OpS of 834 there.  Elias said that he would have been in AAA in 2019 had he not had injuries.  He doesn’t need to go to AA again.  He doesn’t have anything left there to prove.  He also just turned 24, so he is getting too old for the league anyway.

Rutschman is an elite college bat.  He turns 23 in a few months.   By all accounts, he has looked great in the camps of 2020. You don’t just keep elite guys that are advanced in age and approach in the minors for that long.  It doesn’t happen and it shouldn’t happen.  If he was a 20 year old kid out of HS, it would be different.  But he’s not.  Now, he does have to perform a lot better than what we saw in 2019 but again, that goes without saying.

Give him some time down there, make sure you gain the extra year this year and perhaps give him enough time to avoid Super 2 since he has so little pro experience but come early June or so, he should be ready to be here, if not sooner.

The reality is, im fine with bringing him up as soon as they gain the extra year of service time in 2021.  I’m sure they will give him more time than just a few weeks though.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So I'm too stupid to "Comprehend" what you are asking.....But your not throwing insults! Same old Shtick!!!!

I said that when Manicini was promoted it wasn't after a season where he didn't have a competitive AB. There is nothing wrong with that answer other than that is the answer you were looking for! I said Diaz season where he hit .262/807 was at AA and not AAA. So therefore the 2 circumstances are the same. Anyone with a little bit of intelligence can understand these differences (SEE I CAN DO IT ALSO!).

Also ..... Diaz was a highly sought after IFA that got a 2 million dollar gift from the Dodgers that we received as a part of the Machado deal. I'd assume you'd agree that expectations should be higher for a high priced IFR or a #1 overall selection like Adley compared to your expectations for an 8th round pick that received a nominal bonus. People were "Meh" about getting Stallings (a 5th rounder) for Iglesias

Two milion?  You better check again.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So I'm too stupid to "Comprehend" what you are asking.....But your not throwing insults! Same old Shtick!!!!

I said that when Manicini was promoted it wasn't after a season where he didn't have a competitive AB. There is nothing wrong with that answer other than that is the answer you were looking for! I said Diaz season where he hit .262/807 was at AA and not AAA. So therefore the 2 circumstances are the same. Anyone with a little bit of intelligence can understand these differences (SEE I CAN DO IT ALSO!).

Also ..... Diaz was a highly sought after IFA that got a 2 million dollar gift from the Dodgers that we received as a part of the Machado deal. I'd assume you'd agree that expectations should be higher for a high priced IFR or a #1 overall selection like Adley compared to your expectations for an 8th round pick that received a nominal bonus. People were "Meh" about getting Stallings (a 5th rounder) for Iglesias

You are right..it’s not the answer I’m looking for because it’s not an answer to the question you were asked.

If I ask you, what is your favorite color and you tell me a banana, that is an answer and it’s not one I’m looking for..that doesn’t mean in insulting you, it just means that trying to discuss this with you when you clearly don’t want to answer the questions and you want your agenda is a waste of time.  

[LookinUp]

I think because of the way that 2020 went, level/placement will be more of a combination of scouting and performance than just performance. For Rutschman, that means that while you can justify starting him at lower levels, you also likely have enough to go on to start him in Baltimore on opening day if you really wanted. That argues for a AA assignment, though A+ wouldn't shock me I guess.

On Diaz, I personally believe that he has already shown he's ready for AAA. So, for me, that means I'd assign him to AAA. From there, he has issues that he needs to work on, most notably his availability and production over time. He has flashed nicely at times, but then he inevitably has missed time for various reasons and tends to start slow upon return. That seems to have suppressed his stats. Also, I honestly think there's a red flag in there somewhere with Diaz. I think the O's like the talent more than the make up. If he's traded, I wouldn't be shocked at all. I also acknowledge that I'm reading between the lines here and have no strong evidence, for what it's worth.

[Roll Tide]

48 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Again, you are making it clear that you do not consider anything that happened at Bowie in 2020 to matter.  From what I have read, the Orioles strongly disagree with you.  Maybe you are right and the Orioles will ignore what they saw in 2020 and place everyone at their 2019 levels, but I would tend to doubt that.  Mountcastle's promotion would seem to be solid evidence of the Orioles' view of the level of growth and learning that went on at Bowie.

Different situation ..... Mountcastle hit .312/.344/.527 in 544 at bats in 2019 at AAA. He was clearly ready and I'm not sure how you think the Bowie time impacted that. He started at the Bowie camp only because there was no AAA. He started at the Bowie camp to delay the clock.

[LookinUp]

So Roll Tide, do you think after 1500 ABs, better than average league stats and Elias' comments that he would have been in AAA but for the injury, coupled with a Covid season that didn't happen, that Diaz should still start in AA?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Different Regime .... The O's including Showalter had pipedreams of contending! Elias is still subtracting and making no qualms about where they are in the process. Look ...I get you guys dont care about the clock.... I'm sure ME does!

I said I would send Diaz to AA and ask me to give me those results. He's never played a game at AAA and he missed all of 2020 like most minor leaguers

I care about the clock, but only to an extent.    I wouldn’t hold anyone back until 2022 if they are ready at mid-2021.    But, I wouldn’t start someone in the majors on Opening Day even if they were ready.   

Particularly as to Rutschman, I feel like catchers only have so many years in their legs and I wouldn’t spend one of those years in the minors if they’re ready for the majors.  I am not saying, sight unseen, that he is ready, despite some of the hype we’ve heard lately.  But let’s say it’s late June and it’s very evident he is ready — at that point, I’d like to see him getting major league experience.   Is that “wasted” in a losing season?   I don’t think so, because it hastens the time when he’ll be at the peak of experience and physical ability.    
 

[scOtt]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

I think this is the real key. The Orioles need to find playing time for Stewart and Mullins to see what they have in them. If Mancini is able to go next year, that pushes Mountcastle back to LF with Hays in CF and Santander in RF. That leaves Stewart DHing and Mullins as the 4th outfielder. Diaz should start the year in AAA and if playing time arises through injury or poor performance, as long as he's playing ok, he should be the next up for a shot. 

I agree with you and Frobby, circumstances rather than any actual numbers threshold. And I think the bolded is the best and simplest way to phrase it. Next man up.

[Roll Tide]

45 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't think it would be shortsighted to rely on traditional counting stats to determine if a player is worthy of promotion?

why even have an analytics department?

I live in a world where you prove you deserve a promotion. Producing at your current role is the indicator. Most players produce less at the majors than they did in the minors....Notice I said most! Analytics helps and I'm happy we have them. But they stats are the stats and why think a guy is ready to do better at the majors than he's done at AA? .262 is pretty mediocre. What is it about Bowie that would lead you to believe that he'd do better at the majors.

Scenario ..... its 2021 in July and Diaz is hitting .260/.315/750 at AA. Why do you think he'd be better against MLB pitching? Analystics? I'm pretty sure they are using the same data in the minors now right?

[Roll Tide]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Two milion?  You better check again.

OH ... 15.5 ... Thanks for helping make my point 🍺

[Roll Tide]

41 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You are right..it’s not the answer I’m looking for because it’s not an answer to the question you were asked.

If I ask you, what is your favorite color and you tell me a banana, that is an answer and it’s not one I’m looking for..that doesn’t mean in insulting you, it just means that trying to discuss this with you when you clearly don’t want to answer the questions and you want your agenda is a waste of time.  

Bananas are yellow right?       https://www.crayola.com/explore-colors/banana-mania.aspx

 

[LookinUp]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

What is it about Bowie that would lead you to believe that he'd do better at the majors.

Context.

He hit very well in spells in Bowie, but tended to get hurt and start slowly when he came back. So,  his cumulative stats MAY not be an indicator of his true talent. Additionally, the coaches/management see him and have the modern equipment to better evaluate that question (e.g., his true talent, expected future performance) than "old" stats like batting average in the context of injuries might indicate.

With that said, I'm not convinced that his true talent actually matches his original hype when signed by the Dodgers or traded to the O's. Tony's write-ups raise serious questions in that regard, so I don't think you're wrong to want to see some performance before promoting him. But I suspect the people you're arguing with in this thread actually agree about that point.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I live in a world where you prove you deserve a promotion. Producing at your current role is the indicator. Most players produce less at the majors than they did in the minors....Notice I said most! Analytics helps and I'm happy we have them. But they stats are the stats and why think a guy is ready to do better at the majors than he's done at AA? .262 is pretty mediocre. What is it about Bowie that would lead you to believe that he'd do better at the majors.

Scenario ..... its 2021 in July and Diaz is hitting .260/.315/750 at AA. Why do you think he'd be better against MLB pitching? Analystics? I'm pretty sure they are using the same data in the minors now right?

You missed my point.

Traditional counting stats may not show actual skill or ability in a way that a deeper look might.

Maybe a player's slugging is impeded by the home stadium?  Maybe the ball used in the majors would benefit a player with a good launch angle?  Maybe a player gets called out on borderline pitches that ML umps won't miss?  Maybe it is something as simple as an unlucky BABIP.  You going to not promote a guy because his slash line is poor when his BABIP is 220?

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

OH ... 15.5 ... Thanks for helping make my point 🍺

I like things to be factually accurate. 
 

I don't think Daiz would be a good target for an early, below market extension.