Rebuild mode or Sell mode?

[ScGO's]

What would it take for Baltimore to do something like the Green Bay Packers and have the city own the team? That keeps the O's in Baltimore forever.  Didn't our tax dollars build the stadium?

[ThomasTomasz]

6 hours ago, rudyrooster said:

It's sorta "stadiums be damned".  MLB obviously gave us the "middle finger" a couple years ago when it was our time to host the All-Star game.  It seems to me as though MLB and the Orioles ownership don't have a very good relationship.  Just my opinion.

It’s been that way with Peter Angelos since he broke from the owners in the 1994 labor dispute. MLB and the owners tried to get him removed from the stories you can find. 
 

fault Angelos for a lot of things over the years, but he’s likely the only owner in the four major sports who is pro-labor, and to the detriment of his own club in many cases. 

[ThomasTomasz]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Let’s hope they are setting the team up to sell because the rebuilding plan has gone too far at this point.

Look at how the Cubs, Astros and Nationals were built. With that kind of plan, we are right where we need to be. 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Philip said:

I don’t think the Orioles will leave, but if the franchise moved, why do you think the city would get another team? It would be a city and a stadium competing against every other potential franchise city, and all of them would have no competition for fans.

Nashville or Vegas would be lousy choices, but Portland or San Antonio would be great. Maybe Oklahoma City.

But it’s best to have the Orioles in Baltimore.

I don’t know that they would be first on the list.  It’s just a scenario.  Obviously, I would need to know that a MLB team was for sure coming here.

Its just a hypothetical discussion.

 

The team isn’t moving and there is no danger of anything like that.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

Look at how the Cubs, Astros and Nationals were built. With that kind of plan, we are right where we need to be. 

Tell me what the Astros did that resulted in them winning?

Tell me what a team is able to do that is unique to rebuilding.

 

(btw, I really hate arguing this.  As I said before, this is the argument of someone else at a message board I used to post on..I disagreed with him on a lot of things but the crux of his argument of “why rebuild” has some merit...I was for the idea of tanking for a year or 2 but that time has come and gone)

[wildcard]

47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

A more watchable and representative product on the field. 

What if I told the O's are one season away from flipping the switch and  fielding a winning team?

Next year Rutschman,  Mountcastle, Santander, Hays, Diaz, Mullins. Depending on what happens this year they will add help a 2B/SS/3B.     They have Means, Kremer, Akins, Baumann, Lowther, A Well, Zimmerman and maybe Sceroler and/or Tyler Wells.  With Rodriguez and DL Hall close.

I think the arrival of Rutschman will signal the beginning of competitive years.  Elias doesn't want to waste the Rutschman years.

By losing this season Elias will hope to get a high draft position next year, and add more talent that may help him win a World Series in the next 5 years.  

Cobbs 15m will be off the books and as soon as the O's know if the 2022 season will be shortened Davis will be paid out and off the roster.   Mancini probably traded.  This will leave money to bring in some better stopgap infielders until Henderson and Westburg are ready.

Would you rather have an  expansion team than that?

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

What if I told the O's are one season away from flipping the switch and  fielding a winning team?

Next year Rutschman,  Mountcastle, Santander, Hays, Diaz, Mullins. Depending on what happens this year they will add help a 2B/SS/3B.     They have Means, Kremer, Akins, Baumann, Lowther, A Well, Zimmerman and maybe Sceroler and/or Tyler Wells.  With Rodriguez and DL Hall close.

I think the arrival of Rutschman will signal the beginning of competitive years.  Elias doesn't want to waste the Rutschman years.

By losing this season Elias will hope to get a high draft position next year, add more talent that may help him win a World Series in the next 5 years.  

Would you rather have an  expansion team than that?

 

I would gladly trade every player in the organization to get rid of the Angelos family.

And your scenario could be true whether they were tanking or not, with the exception of Adley.

[rudyrooster]

I hope Elias and Sig aren't outsmarting themselves.  I would like to see a better product on the field this season.  I don't see how adding a couple of "decent" free agents can harm the rebuild.  Can it?  Or are we keeping payroll down and not tying the franchise to a long-term stadium lease signs of something else?

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

A more watchable and representative product on the field. 

There is no doubt the team will be better this year. Subtracting Alberto is a plus, and although subtracting Iglesias is a minus at the moment, I understand the trade and I expect we will open the season with a better SS than Martin or Valiaka( an’ it Please God) the pitching will be much improved, unless NONE of our potential starters pans out, which is statistically and realistically unlikely. The defense will remain poor, but we can improve it between now and April so long as we do something about SS and 3B, and put defense in the OF. I’ve washed my hands of the catching, that’s going to be terrible, but overall, there’s every reason to expect a better team.

So you’re going to get what you want, even if Mike isn’t calling you every hour or so to make sure you approve.

:-)

And blessings to you as well!

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Tell me what the Astros did that resulted in them winning?

Tell me what a team is able to do that is unique to rebuilding.

 

(btw, I really hate arguing this.  As I said before, this is the argument of someone else at a message board I used to post on..I disagreed with him on a lot of things but the crux of his argument of “why rebuild” has some merit...I was for the idea of tanking for a year or 2 but that time has come and gone)

The Astros made good choices and were lucky. We are making good choices, but missing some of the luck that landed in their lap. Plus, I don’t think we cheat.

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Philip said:

The Astros made good choices and were lucky. We are making good choices, but missing some of the luck that landed in their lap. Plus, I don’t think we cheat.

They all cheat.

[MurphDogg]

Baltimore is the 20th largest metro area (bordering the 6th largest metro area) and it has one of the best stadiums in baseball. I don't think the Orioles are going anywhere.

Tampa is actually the 18th largest metro area, the problem is that the stadium is in St. Pete. They have been trying to get a stadium built in Tampa for years to no avail.

There really isn't an obvious place to move a team. Third team in/near NYC, third team in the LA area (Riverside Rays?), Charlotte, Portland and Vegas are probably the best options.

[OrioleDog]

Except for hurt '22 pitchers like Giles, or a real IF talent like Simmons, Turner (3/50?   Werth beard included) or Profar (tilting at windmills) - there's hardly a FA I care about one way or the other.   Even beyond Galvis, I'm sure Jonathan Villar would enjoy another run at black ink if our in-house Martin reports are pessimistic.

The basket of 2021 talent where there's an interesting fork in the road is in-house, and we won't get information on All/Half/None MLB deployment until May.  It'll help if Norfolk and Bowie are like the '84 Tigers.

Adley and friends are the difference I think between the '21 Orioles having a true talent level of 90-some vs. 80-some losses.   If half a dozen or so of the org's best players earn Baltimore reps by early summer, that's very watchable.   I believe the Scherzer (and later, the Corbin) characters will come to these teams, even if not until '23-'24.   Its basic to fandom you want the rebuild done sooner rather than later, and seasonally the only real question is what is 2022?

 

[Sports Guy]

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

There is no doubt the team will be better this year. Subtracting Alberto is a plus, and although subtracting Iglesias is a minus at the moment, I understand the trade and I expect we will open the season with a better SS than Martin or Valiaka( an’ it Please God) the pitching will be much improved, unless NONE of our potential starters pans out, which is statistically and realistically unlikely. The defense will remain poor, but we can improve it between now and April so long as we do something about SS and 3B, and put defense in the OF. I’ve washed my hands of the catching, that’s going to be terrible, but overall, there’s every reason to expect a better team.

So you’re going to get what you want, even if Mike isn’t calling you every hour or so to make sure you approve.

🙂

And blessings to you as well!

I am More than happy having the young Guys play and i do think the team will be better...none of that means they shouldn’t be doing more.

[Sports Guy]

38 minutes ago, Philip said:

The Astros made good choices and were lucky. We are making good choices, but missing some of the luck that landed in their lap. Plus, I don’t think we cheat.

You mean good choices like Appel and Aiken, 2 of the players they drafted high as a result of tanking.